Equipment Defect Detectors

[sectionut]

So in my area (NW Ohio) I know there are equipment defect detectors in use. I've monitored the conventional freqs that I am able to pullin and have not heard one. So my question is, are these defect detectors on their own frequencies by themselves?

[MFD4305]

In my experience, the defect detectors are always on the Road Channel for that specific track(s). It's more likely that you're just not near a detector.

[DPD1]

They're just low power... They do that on purpose because they only really need it to be heard by the train right at that spot.

[sectionut]

Thanks for the info, I'll keep an ear out on those channels when I'm a little closer to where I know they can be heard. A friend of mine lives a few miles east of me and has pulled in the CSX detectors before.

[KR4BD]

My experience, too, has found all the detectors on the Primary Road Frequency for that Railroad. All trains must monitor that frequency while operating on the mainline. Around here, the Norfolk Southern uses 160.95 for a Road Frequency and all the detectors are there, too. These detectors operate with relatively low power...just enough for the train passing by to hear the report after they pass. I live about 3 miles from a detector and can hear it clearly with a handheld scanner. Another detector, located about 12 miles north of me can only be heard on my base scanner connected to an antenna up about 40 ft. In recent years, these devices are fully automated and speak with a computerized voice.

A "Typical" detector message might sound like this:

"Norfolk Southern---milepost 87 dot 8, no defects" REPEATS

or, if there is a problem with a train, it will sound something like this:

"Norfolk Southern--Detector Alarm (Loud Tone) Repeats...Then something like "Hotbox Alarm, Left Side, Axle Number 42 (Repeats)"

An alarm message repeats several times to be sure the engineer hears it. Railroad regulations require the train must stop and the conductor investigate the problem before moving the train further.

I know that Norfolk Southern operates in your area, but may use a different road frequency than what is used around here. These detectors are located about every 10-15 miles along the mainline of the NS here in Central KY. On lesser used lines, they may not be found as close together.

[trace1]

Originally Posted by KR4BD

An alarm message repeats several times to be sure the engineer hears it. Railroad regulations require the train must stop and the conductor investigate the problem before moving the train further.

How soon must that train stop?

I live very close to a NS line and have heard these messages and while there have been a few "hot axle" alarms, etc. I don't ever recall the train stopping upon hearing that message. Although just further down the line there is an Amtrak Station and I'm sure a better place to stop if needed to check for those problems indicated.

I can't say that I'm a RailFan but I do monitor the RR freqs. due to living so close to the tracks. I know NS, CSX, and Amtrak use this track, not sure if any others do though.

[KR4BD]

I'm not a railroad employee, but I am pretty sure they must stop the train as quickly as is safely possible. I have heard them stop trains immediately around here and the conductor then walks the length of the train to check out the reported problems (dragging equipment, hot axle, etc.). Oftentimes, he can fix the problem once found. If it is a serious problem, the train will move at reduced speed and set out the car with the problem on the nearest siding for future repair.

[sectionut]

I think sometime in the near future I'm going to use an outdoor antenna. I'd say I'm approx 10-12 miles away from a railroad line. Most likely moving in the near future though so we'll see. In the meantime I may check out the area why detectors I can visually identify so that I have a better idea of the distance.

[cgriggs]

Here in Montgomery, AL CSX has been putting in new Defect Detectors around this area. One I've noticed seems to be transmitting at least 50 watts and it has a Laird FG1560 Antenna on it which is a 68" antenna. I heard this particular EDD this morning from 25 miles away, (many factors go into this I know) but I was picking it up very well for 25 miles away.

The FG1560 is described as a "High performance and reliable collinear J-pole design surrounded by durable high density fiberglass".

I've also noticed that there is no particular antenna of choice for an EDD either, one that is 18 miles north of my home has a weird antenna but I can always pick it up very well. I'll get a picture of it and post in this thread later.

Attached are a couple of files to help you on your way. I noticed the CSX Toledo Sub and NS Fostoria Dist cross near Leipsic. =)

[IrvingtonVFD43]

Originally Posted by cgriggs

Here in Montgomery, AL CSX has been putting in new Defect Detectors around this area. One I've noticed seems to be transmitting at least 50 watts and it has a Laird FG1560 Antenna on it which is a 68" antenna. I heard this particular EDD this morning from 25 miles away, (many factors go into this I know) but I was picking it up very well for 25 miles away.

The FG1560 is described as a "High performance and reliable collinear J-pole design surrounded by durable high density fiberglass".

I've also noticed that there is no particular antenna of choice for an EDD either, one that is 18 miles north of my home has a weird antenna but I can always pick it up very well. I'll get a picture of it and post in this thread later.

Attached are a couple of files to help you on your way. I noticed the CSX Toledo Sub and NS Fostoria Dist cross near Leipsic. =)

That FG 1560 that you are probably seeing on the equipment shed is a Lo-Band antenna used for Metorcomm, which receives data from the engine and uses metor scatter to send engine data back. BNSF uses is exclusively across the system.

The majority of the antennas used on defect detector sheds are no more that a 1/4 wave surface mount Maxrad antenna.

The wierd antenna may be a microwave link to a tower to send back detector info to the dispatcher.

I could be wrong, though, but yes, pictures would be nice.

[cgriggs]

Originally Posted by IrvingtonVFD43

That FG 1560 that you are probably seeing on the equipment shed is a Lo-Band antenna used for Metorcomm, which receives data from the engine and uses metor scatter to send engine data back. BNSF uses is exclusively across the system.

The majority of the antennas used on defect detector sheds are no more that a 1/4 wave surface mount Maxrad antenna.

The wierd antenna may be a microwave link to a tower to send back detector info to the dispatcher.

I could be wrong, though, but yes, pictures would be nice.

The FG1560 Laird Antenna is a VHF antenna used to trainsmit the detector audio and actually both antennas are VHF antennas. I have pictures at home so I'll post them later tonight.

[icom1020]

BNSF is also using lo-band for their MOW HY-Rails to alert when they are approaching another track occupancy in dark territory. What I've seen trackside is a Morad brand antenna similar to the 1610 TIS freeway antennas.

[b7spectra]

Both the detectors and FRED's are great if you are into RR photography. I would have my scanner monitoring not only the dispatch channel, but the FRED as well, and when you hear that "chirp", you know to get ready to take your pictures!

[cgriggs]

http://www.alabamarailfan.com/downlo...ontrib=cgriggs

As promised here is the funky antenna that transmits really well.

[icom1020]

That looks like a Motorola brand antenna possibly outsourced be someone else. Quite popular on remote base sites on the UP. The popular Motorola firecrackers were made by Antenna Specialists until disco'd a few years back.

[wbigcount]

Originally Posted by sectionut

So in my area (NW Ohio) I know there are equipment defect detectors in use. I've monitored the conventional freqs that I am able to pullin and have not heard one. So my question is, are these defect detectors on their own frequencies by themselves?

there are alot of Defect Detectors that are talk on defect only, so u wont hear them say anything except for a short tone sometimes till there is a defect or if there is somthing wrong with the detector it will tell the train there is a problem with it and you hope the next one is working cause if not your walking your train.

[seligman]

Originally Posted by IrvingtonVFD43

That FG 1560 that you are probably seeing on the equipment shed is a Lo-Band antenna used for Metorcomm, which receives data from the engine and uses metor scatter to send engine data back. BNSF uses is exclusively across the system.

BNSF uses Meteorcomm on the detector houses to send detector info back, not relays from the locomotive.

As others have pointed out, they have lots of other uses for Meteorcomm too.

[electricman]

Its been aprox. one year since I have heard the CSX defect dectectors, I thought perhaps they changed to another system?

[IrvingtonVFD43]

Originally Posted by seligman

BNSF uses Meteorcomm on the detector houses to send detector info back, not relays from the locomotive.

Relays from a locomotive?, Ok, Anyhow, locomotive data from any of the 70mac series EMD locomotives equipped with Meteorcomm is sent back to the BNSF NOC in Ft. Worth, Tx., or sent on demand from the Dispatcher or Mechanical, but of course if there is enough meteor scatter to help propagate the data burst which doesn't require more than a few seconds of a meteor trail to propagate.

Look for the long Sinclair antennas along the top the cab if you happen to see a BNSF 70mac, which indicates a Meteorcomm equipped engine.

If you are riding in a GE locomotive, engine data is sent back to GE or Mechanical or both via satellite.

[sectionut]

Wow this kinda blew up in to some great info. Haven't been able to follow up with monitoring lately. Vacation this week so I may just get ambicious.