AMTRAK Surrenders frequencies???

[radioman2001]

I just got word that AMTRAK gave up licenses on 99 RR splinter channels. I just tried looking up those licenses and cannot find any record of them, some body have a better way of looking up FCC actions?

[radioman2001]

Never mind found it. Talk about backroom politics, this is an attempt to circumvent users attempting to license on them.(splinters)

[gewecke]

What does AMTRAK use come to think of it?
I never really thought about giving them a good listen. Is AMTRAK in the usual rr channel lineup?
N9ZAS

[seligman]

So did BNSF and UP last week.

[milf]

This is everyone getting ready for the narrowbanding of the railroad radio system. AMTRAK uses primarily the main road freqs of each main line they roll on. They also have a few dedicated frequencies for use on the NE Corridor etc...,as well as non road - such as Police, Carmen, etc.... Also for operations at the repair/refurbishing facilities, and other such ops.

[gewecke]

Originally Posted by milf

This is everyone getting ready for the narrowbanding of the railroad radio system. AMTRAK uses primarily the main road freqs of each main line they roll on. They also have a few dedicated frequencies for use on the NE Corridor etc...,as well as non road - such as Police, Carmen, etc.... Also for operations at the repair/refurbishing facilities, and other such ops.

Thanks milf!
N9ZAS

[Lynch_Christopher]

Originally Posted by radioman2001

I just got word that AMTRAK gave up licenses on 99 RR splinter channels. I just tried looking up those licenses and cannot find any record of them, some body have a better way of looking up FCC actions?

This may be a little of topic but with the Metro North Commuter Railroad have to do the same thing by giving up the licenses on 99 RR splinter channels?

[milf]

Look for a complete relicensing of the railroad companies over the next couple of years to show new freq allocations. Then two or so years later,.. new licenses again to reflect addition of digital. Full time frame is over the next 6 years, but I doubt anyone actually waiting that long to begin the "official" process. Remember, even though a new lic may appear, it may be days, weeks, months, or longer before the actual freqs on said lic go active. It all depends on the railcorp's R&D, then Engineering & Construction divisions times... The corp has to finish up all its R&D on what type of radio will best suit the needs of the company, then they have to go out and replace the existing radios, and infrastructures with the new gear. Rail has to be narrowband phase one ready by 2014, then believe it or not, even tighter narrowband which will require digital in just two years time after that. So actually it will be cheaper for the smarter corps to skip phase one and jump into full research on the digital gear, which many are doing. To rehash a hashed to death topic lol- This transition may or may not be monitorable depending on what flavor of digital radio is decided on. Also note, there may end up only being a few freqs that are common and have to be able to be used by ALL the railroads that use/cross each others trackage. Somethig like interop... More info is availablethroughout the forum, and on the wiki.

[DPD1]

Originally Posted by milf

Look for a complete relicensing of the railroad companies over the next couple of years to show new freq allocations. Then two or so years later,.. new licenses again to reflect addition of digital. Full time frame is over the next 6 years, but I doubt anyone actually waiting that long to begin the "official" process. Remember, even though a new lic may appear, it may be days, weeks, months, or longer before the actual freqs on said lic go active. It all depends on the railcorp's R&D, then Engineering & Construction divisions times... The corp has to finish up all its R&D on what type of radio will best suit the needs of the company, then they have to go out and replace the existing radios, and infrastructures with the new gear. Rail has to be narrowband phase one ready by 2014, then believe it or not, even tighter narrowband which will require digital in just two years time after that.

Where did you hear the date for the 6.25 change?

[milf]

Original information here- DPD Productions - Railroad Frequencies: New 12.5 kHz / 6.25 kHz AAR Radio Plan

Updated info from CN Dispatcher is that the change for the first phase will take 2 years to implement 2012-2014... This is the "window" they have. The second phase is to be fully completed by 2016. Being that the dates are so close together, CN, as well as KCS, are both fully into the R&D and nearing final decision on what radio/mix of radios to go with. They will be purchasing equipment and have new licenses in time to be "narrowband capable" by the original deadline. Full implementation will take two additional years. Also from a small railcorp in MS- "This is not going to be easy, and will be expensive." When asked about it, and the issues facing running operations during the next few years, especially during financial hardships. Everyone's doing the "curly shuffle" to get the new licenses and be in "official" compliance by the original 2013 deadline. The big boys will of course get it done first and be using new gear because they have the money and resources. The smaller corps will take longer to get things rolling. Its the same story as public safety switching to narrowband. He who has cash, shops first, he who needs grants or loans, shops when the check hits the bank.

[DPD1]

I would take the second part with a grain of salt, unless it comes from the FCC. Because so far everything has indicated it will be a number of years after the first mandate that compliance will have to be met on the 6.25. That might be a personal goal of the CN though, I don't know. I don't know why they would spend a bunch of money well before they need to... Unless it's not their money, which may be the case. I don't know how it's being handled north of the border.

[milf]

Most likely CN just wants to get the biggest bang for the buck and be ready for anything so they wont have to change it all again. Especially since they run all the way to New Orleans LA in the US since they took over Illinois Central. Heck they still have not finished repainting all the IC locomotives and rolling stock yet lol. KCS is also trying to "Get r' Done" and also are finishing up the "Meridian Speedway" project from Shreveport, LA, to Meridian, MS. The smaller rail ops in MS are all just trying to get by as is. The only bad thing about where I live now is that there is only a tiny railcorp line near me and I have yet to hear any traffic on it. A big change from living right by the CN/IC, and KCS main lines in MS... and the BNSF, and CSX main lines in NC, and TN.

[seligman]

Originally Posted by milf

Updated info from CN Dispatcher is that the change for the first phase will take 2 years to implement 2012-2014... This is the "window" they have. The second phase is to be fully completed by 2016. Being that the dates are so close together, CN, as well as KCS, are both fully into the R&D and nearing final decision on what radio/mix of radios to go with. They will be purchasing equipment and have new licenses in time to be "narrowband capable" by the original deadline. Full implementation will take two additional years. Also from a small railcorp in MS- "This is not going to be easy, and will be expensive." When asked about it, and the issues facing running operations during the next few years, especially during financial hardships. Everyone's doing the "curly shuffle" to get the new licenses and be in "official" compliance by the original 2013 deadline. The big boys will of course get it done first and be using new gear because they have the money and resources. The smaller corps will take longer to get things rolling. Its the same story as public safety switching to narrowband. He who has cash, shops first, he who needs grants or loans, shops when the check hits the bank.

I'm not buying it.

First of all, new licenses are NOT needed for the original 2013 deadline. All they have to do is update their existing licenses with narrowband emissions designators.

Second, the majority of railroad radios are already capable of meeting the 2013 requirements.

[n2nov]

Also, the link to the DPD website is showing future channel spacing as 7.5Khz, not 12.5/6.25Khz.
RR currently uses 15Khz, so the interleave would be 7.5Khz.

[milf]

It shows both, the 2013 7.5, and by 2018 on there for 6.25...
"The FCC mandates that new radio systems go from 25 kHz channels to smaller 12.5 kHz channels by 2013 (step spacing will go from 15 kHz to 7.5 kHz). They also want new radio systems to eventually be capable of an even smaller channel spacing, mandating that manufacturers make all new equipment capable of a 6.25 kHz channel by 2011, and that end users of new systems use a 6.25 kHz channel by 2018 (time not set in stone)."

But since the first step has to be "officially" done in within the next 3 years... You can bet that the "official" licenses of the railcorps will be changing, and as a lot of the licenses are expiring in the 2010-2015 interim, then the new freqs will be on the new ones. Heck most of the "legacy" licenses in all the services expire in this time frame. The corps that have renewed in the last few years will modify their existing licenses. Amtrak being a government run railroad, of course would be one of the first ones to get the ball rolling. Anyway the only issue we all have is when they all do switch to digital is will we have NXDN and TDMA capable scanners? LOL (TDMA being the digital format that is supposed to be coming for APCO etc in 2017.)

[joekansas]

I don't understand what "Narrowbanding" will do.

Does it mean that the switch engine I hear on 160.680 (#38) will no longer be on 160.680? Or, does "narrowbanding" mean that the radios themselves will have a narrower, tighter (how do I say it) output and not bleed over on adjacent frequencies?

I just don't see the big picture. I think I'll try that wikipedia thing. I haven't mastered that particular, either.

[milf]

Narrowbanding means that the ratio between chans will get tighter meaning more chans in the same band. Example- current spacing means: 160.2000, 160.2050, etc... narrowbanded will look more like: 160.1975, 160.2000, 160.2025, then eventually even tighter.. Not a extremely technical way to show it.. but it makes it a little easier to understand. Instead of just 99 freqs to use, you get right at 200. Another example from the Public Safety freqs... Old chan line up- 155.3100, 155.4300, 155.6100.. New rebanded line up- 155.3175, 155.4325, 155.6125.. hope that helps in a generic way.

[RADIOGUY2002]

More frequencies with in the previsious band sections or band plans. Doubling the occupany load, or in the case of 6.25 trippling the occupancy load. Tighter frequency control over radio frequencies. Allows, for more vhf repeaters to come online as well or uhf repeaters in theory.

[Lynch_Christopher]

I read that Metro North Commuter Railroad has already started to replace radios in the locomotives with the GE 12R series II radio's to be compliant with the 2013 switch. Sounds like they already have the ball rolling. I wonder what type of portables they are going to go with whether or not they will be regular commercial off the shelf or if they are going to be special radios just for the rail band.

[seligman]

The Class 1's are buying Kenwood and Icom NXDN-capable handhelds.