RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Topic Specific Forums > Railroad/Railfan Monitoring Forum

Railroad/Railfan Monitoring Forum This is the place to discuss monitoring railroad communications.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2011, 4:25 PM
burner50's Avatar
The Third Variable
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 2,365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJH View Post
Eh, tell me about it... Though does make a nice place to put your bag...though the ice box behind the seat does suck, I've come to realize..
Indeed...


It makes it very difficult to assume the standard conductor position.
__________________
RadioReference.com Forums Moderator
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2011, 9:51 AM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Iowa County, Iowa
Posts: 1,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJH View Post
Last PTC doc I had (will need to dig it up) stated that they settled on 220...at least for the Class 1's. There was talk about interoperbility between the RR's and manufactures.

J, had an older AC4400 the other day that already have the PTC breaker installed on the back panel, nothing else obvious though.

UP according to their FRA submission is suppose to start installing it in loco's at 1000? a year for most loco models.
I think some of that stuff (PTC breaker) is standard equipment anymore. A couple of our engines have breakers for cab signals, cab signal acknowledgement reset, and stuff to cut the cab signals out.

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2011, 7:20 PM
burner50's Avatar
The Third Variable
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 2,365
Default

Interesting... I never got on many foreign engines.


However, I did notice today that a Cattron chest pack is labeled 220Mhz, and I know they use repeaters for those...
__________________
RadioReference.com Forums Moderator

Last edited by burner50; 10-18-2011 at 7:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2014, 12:22 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 31
Default PTC Frequencies

To the Group:

Finally found the PTC lease agreements on the FCC website. I submitted this info to the RR database, but some of it appears to have been corrupted in the posting process. Thought I'd post it to this thread for general information. The actual frequencies licensed in the 220 MHz band are as follows:

Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.1275
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.1325
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.1375
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.1425
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.1475

Mobile and 6.1 meter control station - 221.1275
Mobile and 6.1 meter control station - 221.1325
Mobile and 6.1 meter control station - 221.1375
Mobile and 6.1 meter control station - 221.1425
Mobile and 6.1 meter control station - 221.1475

----------------------------------------------

Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.7525
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.7575
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.7625
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.7675
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 220.7725
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 221.7525
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 221.7575
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 221.7625
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 221.7675
Temporary Fixed ----------------------------- 221.7725

Mobile ------------------------------------------- 221.7525
Mobile ------------------------------------------- 221.7575
Mobile ------------------------------------------- 221.7625
Mobile ------------------------------------------- 221.7675
Mobile ------------------------------------------- 221.7725

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2014, 12:47 AM
Jay911's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bragg Creek, Alberta
Posts: 6,721
Default

Canadian Pacific has had the following batch of frequencies licensed at their Calgary, Alberta, Canada main yard for about a year now. 17K8DXW is the emission designator.

220.13750 MHz
220.41250 MHz
220.43750 MHz
220.71250 MHz
220.73750 MHz
220.76250 MHz

It's the only license nationwide. Nothing's been detected on any of these freqs by my scanners.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2014, 1:51 AM
PJH's Avatar
PJH PJH is offline
Multistate DB Admin
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,601
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WA3ATV View Post
To the Group:

Finally found the PTC lease agreements on the FCC website. I submitted this info to the RR database, but some of it appears to have been corrupted in the posting process. Thought I'd post it to this thread for general information. The actual frequencies licensed in the 220 MHz band are as follows:
Dan
What is the licesne? I wouldn't put too much credence in those freq's just yet, especially with the temporary designation. On the railroads I know, nothing has been done at the field level too much yet due to backend work that is still needed to bring it online.

In my neck of the woods, the equipment shelters, antennas, cabling etc have been installed for two years, but there are no radios installed yet due to technical issues. Locomotives are being retrofitted with radios and equipment, but wayside, not so much.
__________________
If you have received a PM from me about a submission, kindly reply within 5 days with requested information or your submission may be rejected. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 1:51 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 31
Default PTC Frequencies

The frequencies are directly from the FCC's ULS database. That's about as credible as you can get.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 2:10 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 31
Default

Thanks Jay! That's good info. Looks like two of those frequencies agree with what they're licensing here. The others are new! I'll poke those in my scanner too just in case as we have some D&H in my neck of the woods.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 6:04 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: JoCo, KS
Posts: 113
Default PTC

PTC uses the 220 frequencies as its primary communications link when the train is on the road. It uses WiFi for yard comm, with cell as backup for both.

By the way, PTC was MANDATED by congress back in 2010(or there 'bouts). At the time the congressonal budget office predicted that there was NO payback (ie, it was not economically feasable) to do the program, but congress approved it anyway. The RRs did not initiate it. It is supposed to be fully implimented by 2015 (for all passenger service and most major freight lines), but that probably will be delayed for several reasons.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 6:51 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,874
Default

if the above is true why is NS pushing ATCS now and implementing it so heavily
__________________
Scanners: BCT-15, Pro-106
Radios: Icom 3161
John 15:13 - Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 8:17 AM
burner50's Avatar
The Third Variable
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 2,365
Default Positive Train Control Frequencies

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJH View Post
What is the licesne? I wouldn't put too much credence in those freq's just yet, especially with the temporary designation. On the railroads I know, nothing has been done at the field level too much yet due to backend work that is still needed to bring it online.



In my neck of the woods, the equipment shelters, antennas, cabling etc have been installed for two years, but there are no radios installed yet due to technical issues. Locomotives are being retrofitted with radios and equipment, but wayside, not so much.

Does trip optimizer use the same equipment / frequencies?

We have one run that is TO equipped. It keeps tearing trains up.
__________________
RadioReference.com Forums Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 9:36 AM
PJH's Avatar
PJH PJH is offline
Multistate DB Admin
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,601
Default

Trip optimizer is like leader using gps and terrrian. I've only seen one and it wasn't used.

Other posts...

What license in the database was assigned to those freq?

PTC isn't used in the yards. There is "wifi" at certain locations and is used for event recorder downloads, and updates for the LEADER and Trip Optimizer system, if equipped. It is also used for remote diagnostics if also equipped.

Cell based systems are used for remote diagnostics as well, if equipped, and has nothing to do with PTC.

220 and UHF can be used in yards for RCL equipment, depending on the manufacture and may use repeaters so don't get confused if looking at FCC data in many locations.
__________________
If you have received a PM from me about a submission, kindly reply within 5 days with requested information or your submission may be rejected. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 9:38 AM
PJH's Avatar
PJH PJH is offline
Multistate DB Admin
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,601
Default

In the most modern EMD or GE locomotives there will be a string of cables labeled:
VHF, 220, UHF, 900, GPS. There are about 6-8 antenna for all the functions requires.
__________________
If you have received a PM from me about a submission, kindly reply within 5 days with requested information or your submission may be rejected. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 10:19 AM
PJH's Avatar
PJH PJH is offline
Multistate DB Admin
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,601
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reconrider8 View Post
if the above is true why is NS pushing ATCS now and implementing it so heavily
PTC is a "thall shall not pass go" authority system. ATCS isn't. ATCS with other software subsystems is an extension of CAD.
__________________
If you have received a PM from me about a submission, kindly reply within 5 days with requested information or your submission may be rejected. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:21 PM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 31
Default PTC License

PJH,
(Sorry, I didn't get your name.)

The licenses (there are two) are issued to "PTC-220, LLC" which is the holding company the railroads set up to "buy" the auctioned spectrum.

The call signs are: WPFP444 and WPFR284.

The links to the license information in the ULS are:
ULS License - Nationwide Commercial 5 Channel, 220 MHz License - WPFP444 - PTC-220, LLC

and
ULS License - Nationwide Commercial 5 Channel, 220 MHz License - WPFR284 - PTC-220, LLC

There are eleven leases listed so far, including BNSF, CSX and NS. When someone buys spectrum and leases it to others, copies of the lease agreements must be filed with the FCC similar to the way one would file a license application. These lease agreements are also available for inspection in the ULS. By way of example, here is a link to a copy to one of the two lease agreements (two pages) filed with the FCC for NS:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/lett...ull&letterTo=L

Hope this helps answer your questions. I hope that railroad and scanner enthusiasts will begin to monitor these frequencies for activity.

Dan - WA3ATV
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:28 PM
burner50's Avatar
The Third Variable
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 2,365
Default Positive Train Control Frequencies

Remote Controlled Locomotives also use 220mhz frequencies.
__________________
RadioReference.com Forums Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:29 PM
PJH's Avatar
PJH PJH is offline
Multistate DB Admin
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,601
Default

One of the applications of the LLC is the director of PTC for NS. These may be for NS, but there is lots of different ways of doing stuff.

Most railroads (especially the west coast ones) will go and lice sense stuff themselves. In the past AAR use to do blanket licensees, but if you take sample licensees for the voice channels, the RR's are doing it themselves these days.

The nationwide licensing may be for the NS locomotives more than the base stations. The goal of PTC in the backroom/specification is to allow any locomotive, regardless of vendor, to operate on any railroad.

You can say its like the P25 data standard, for railroad.

I'll do some more research, but I think that may be the case here.
__________________
If you have received a PM from me about a submission, kindly reply within 5 days with requested information or your submission may be rejected. Thanks!

Last edited by PJH; 02-03-2014 at 12:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:32 PM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 31
Default PTC - ATCS

reconrider8,
(Sorry, didn't get your name either.)

PTC is an overlay of existing signalling systems. It does NOT replace them. Thus, it makes no difference whether those systems operate via ATCS, copper wire, fiber, microwave, satellite or sub-space radio. PTC augments the existing system (in whatever form) with new capabilities. Thus, NS moving from copper to ATCS or CSX moving from ATCS to satellite has no significant bearing on the implementation of PTC.

Dan - WA3ATV
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:38 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 4,262
Default

There are three licenses. You missed this one.
ULS License - Nationwide Commercial 5 Channel, 220 MHz License - WQSK949 - PTC-220, LLC

Oh. It looks like this one is only for Illinois.
__________________
Tom

Last edited by nd5y; 02-03-2014 at 12:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:39 PM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 31
Default

PJH,
(Still didn't get your name.)

"One of the applications of the LLC is the director of PTC for NS."

Correct! That's to be expected. "PTC 220 LLC" is a holding company established by a consortium of the railroads. If you browse through the PTC 220 LLC filings, you'll also find mailing addresses in Norfolk and Jacksonville.

At any rate, there it is. Unless anyone has any actual, factual information to the contrary, those are the PTC frequencies recognized by the FCC as of today.

Dan

Dan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2011 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions