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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2011, 4:36 PM
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I live on the other end of Tennessee, in one of the metropolitan counties. My fire subscription is through a subscription fire department, and I consider the annual membership small relative to the investment I have in my house. Counties in Tennessee have no blanket authority to tax for fire protection, although "special taxing Districts" like those for water, sewer, or gas independent of the county can be created.
I think this is the way all such services should be funded-those who want them pay for them.
Incidentally, I pay for Emergency Medical Transport the same way. This gives the provider stable income for working capital. Yes, I have had a fire, and this very good department responded promptly, and I never had to pay anything above my annual subscription. And no one from this department ever tried to sell me a fish fry, a bar-b-q, a car wash, or stood at an intersection with a bucket.
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Old 12-08-2011, 12:28 AM
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Blount Co. fire departments say they won't refuse to fight fires
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Old 12-08-2011, 7:10 AM
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The City tax dollars buy the fire trucks, the radio systems, pay the bills. The county does not pay the cities any money from taxes for fire protection. So the choice is simple the cities either stop going outside the city to fight any fire or the people pay for fire service outside the city and the firefighter that makes the choice to go outside the city when the city makes the SOP's is wrong as NOT FOLLOWING ANY ORDERS they are given. The firefighters do not make the rules the VOTERS AND ELECTED PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTY DO. Just think would your boss want to pay all the bills and you do something for free that is not what you are payed to do. How would the US feel if the men and women refused to follow the orders when they were sent to war it would not work. And before people that post that do not know the policies for the involved fire departments of this county IF A LIVE IS IN DANGER IF A FEE HAS BEEN PAID OR NOT THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS WILL RESPOND TO LIFE ENDANGERMENT.
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Last edited by buddrousa; 12-08-2011 at 7:13 AM..
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Old 12-08-2011, 7:29 AM
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Isn't it time to close this thread? Nothing said here will make a difference and adds nothing to the hobby. If you want to vent more and or maybe make a positive difference then choose the approrpiate venue where it might do some good such as the local news outlet or the elected officials.
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Old 12-08-2011, 8:05 AM
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buddrousa,

Do you also refuse to roll on mutual aid calls? If you do respond, do you bill the other department for the response or do they also have to subscribe before you do?

If you roll to watch the non-subscriber's house burn and it starts to spread to a neighboring structure do you check the list and let the fire spread if that on is not on the list? What happens when due to your inaction the fire gets out of hand and is now beyond the capability of all the local/state assets to control it?

PUT THE DAMN FIRE OUT, then put a lean on the property or what ever it takes to recoup the cost. To sit by and do nothing is beyond low and puts the rest of the citizens YOU SWORE AN OATH to protect in danger.
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Old 12-08-2011, 9:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhooten View Post
buddrousa,

Do you also refuse to roll on mutual aid calls? If you do respond, do you bill the other department for the response or do they also have to subscribe before you do?

If you roll to watch the non-subscriber's house burn and it starts to spread to a neighboring structure do you check the list and let the fire spread if that on is not on the list? What happens when due to your inaction the fire gets out of hand and is now beyond the capability of all the local/state assets to control it?

PUT THE DAMN FIRE OUT, then put a lean on the property or what ever it takes to recoup the cost. To sit by and do nothing is beyond low and puts the rest of the citizens YOU SWORE AN OATH to protect in danger.
Not sure why you even bring up mutual aid calls, sort of bringing apples to an orange juice convention.

Like Buddrousa said, it is a city policy to even provide any fire protection outside of the city limits, but the people who provide the service ie the taxpayers do not feel it is their job to pay for county fire protection. So they implemented this policy, (one of three departments in that county that have that policy). The lady who had the fire knew about the policy, rolled the dice and lost. The firefighters and chief have been told time after time they will be terminated if they put out a non-members fire.

The taxpayers of the county need to step up, and vote for a method of paying for fire protection.

The oath? They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Providing fire protection to the citizens of the city, and to other areas as ordered by their supervisors.
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Old 12-08-2011, 6:37 PM
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I got question and a thought.

If someone was inside, would FD rescue?

If the out county tax was paid by everyone, seems the cost would be considerably cheaper for all.
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Old 12-08-2011, 8:11 PM
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This is not a vent to the Firefighters Of Obion County. Elected Officials make the City and County SOP's not the Local Fire Departments. The 7 Local City Fire Departments went to the County Commission with a COUNTY WIDE FIRE TAX that would been paid by all in the County for ALL PEOPLE OF OBION COUNTY to have fire service. The County Officials voted to not have a tax for all to pay and voted for a subscription fire service and the people that wanted the service could pay for the service and those that did not pay were left out. If the County had voted a COUNTY FIRE TAX it would have been $60.00 per home or busness not the $75.00 for the subscription fire service. All 7 Cities have signed agreements that they will not go into another Cities rural area unless that City is at the fire and calls for a Mutual Aid. Wyandotte your answer is in post #23 The County was told this would happen again they refused to listen. Its not the Cities place to speen Millions of City Tax Dollars and to provide free service to the county that makes the choice not to pay or provide fire service to the citezens of the county. THIS IS NOT THE WILL OF THE FIREFIGHTERS IT IS THE WILL OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS and it has been this way all the way back to the mid 1970's The Cities have no responsibility to the people that live outside of there city limits. Here is one for thought General knothead thinks said x small country is wrong and desides to invade with his troops now just what do you think would happen if he did not have the support of his country how long do you think General knothead would have a job? We the firefighters are just doing our jobs as the elected officials have told us just as you are doing the job your boss tells you to do.
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Old 12-08-2011, 9:45 PM
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Why would they even show up at the scene if they are not going to do anything? They just wasted fuel and time going.
What if the fire set the neighbors house on fire that paid for the fire tax? How could you explain that?
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Old 12-09-2011, 8:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhere300 View Post
Not sure why you even bring up mutual aid calls, sort of bringing apples to an orange juice convention.
It is exactly the same thing. City fire assets are being used to put out a fire that is out side the service area, assisting a property owner that did not pay for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhere300 View Post
Like Buddrousa said, it is a city policy to even provide any fire protection outside of the city limits, but the people who provide the service ie the taxpayers do not feel it is their job to pay for county fire protection. So they implemented this policy, (one of three departments in that county that have that policy). The lady who had the fire knew about the policy, rolled the dice and lost. The firefighters and chief have been told time after time they will be terminated if they put out a non-members fire.
Then why even roll the truck to the scene? It waste city fuel and firefighters time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhere300 View Post
The taxpayers of the county need to step up, and vote for a method of paying for fire protection.
What are the taxes the county citizens all ready pay being used for? Fire protection is a basic service the government should provide.

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Originally Posted by iamhere300 View Post
The oath? They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Providing fire protection to the citizens of the city, and to other areas as ordered by their supervisors.
Let me lay a little what if with you. What if a fire starts outside the city. Fire Department does not respond or responds and stands by just watching because the property owner has not paid additional tribute. The wind picks up blowing embers onto the nearby houses inside the city. Several of those houses begin to burn. So just exactly have they protected the citizens of the city and their property?

There is more to it than just the primary source of the fire. Fire is unpredictable and can get out of hand quickly. One tree in a power line, and 34000 acre gone in no time. (Bastrop Labor day)

This is not about providing fire service. It sounds more like a political urinating tournament. Maybe I wasn't clear earlier. To the leaders of the community, do the right thing the recoup the cost after.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfhtm350 View Post
Why would they even show up at the scene if they are not going to do anything? They just wasted fuel and time going.
What if the fire set the neighbors house on fire that paid for the fire tax? How could you explain that?
They show up for two reasons. First is life safety, they say they will effect rescue if people are inside the structure. Second is to protect exposures owned by subscribers.

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Old 12-09-2011, 12:01 PM
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Mr Hooten I do not know about the area of Texas you live in but County Fire Service is not a basic Service offered by OBION COUNTY. OBION COUNTY gives no tax money to the 7 City Governments that have FIRE DEPARTMENTS and OBION COUNTY HAS NO FIRE DEPARTMENT. The people that live outside the City pays for Fire Service. This is the system the Cities operate under. Every Fire Department in the State of Tennessee operates under Taxes, Donations, or Subscription Fees. The County has no FIRE DEPARTMENT and the county voted to adapt the Subscription Fire Fees of the Cities. The Cities have developed the rules for the operating at fires outside of the cities and all Cities have agreeded to operate under theses rules and the Fire Departments have to follow the City rules that have been made. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE THIS IS NOT WHAT THE FIREFIGHTERS WANT WE WANT FIRE SERVICE FOR ALL BUT WE HAVE RULES TO FOLLOW. ALL WE CAN HOPE FOR IS OBION COUNTY WILL VOTE FOR A FIRE TAX OR CREATE THEIR OWN COUNTY WIDE FIRE DEPARTMENT UNTIL THEN THE 7 CITIES WILL PROVIDE SERVICE FOR A FEE AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE. It is not fair to the people that live in the city to pay for fire service for people that do not live in the city. These are the facts I will not fuss or fight or name call in this forum the facts for both sides have been posted and I wish that no more poking or stabbing take place here in this forum. We are sad this happened but we have to follow the rules of our Cities and County. PLEASE LET THIS END NOW.
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Last edited by buddrousa; 12-09-2011 at 12:03 PM..
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2011, 12:43 PM
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JHooten,

If the County was going to implement a fire service then it would have to be funded by an increase in taxes. Then everyone, whether they desire to have fire protection or not, will have to pay for the fire service.

The way they have it set up now, the individual property owners get to decide whether they pay for (and therefore receive when necessary) fire service or not. I like the idea and wish more government services were set up this way.
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Old 12-09-2011, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButchGone View Post
If those volunteer jack asses can crank up the rigs and roll just to go watch a fire then the least they can do is show some interest in protecting the community. Sounds like a working fire is just entertainment for those clowns. If they are so worried about money, why are they burning fuel and time to go watch someone's house burn? Complete morons.
BG..
If they were career firefighters on the vehicle, would you have posted this same message? I doubt it. The attack on the volunteers isn't warranted.

Also, here's more information that came out today about this particular incident:
Fulton FD says it was not on scene of controversial fire. Local chief says Kentucky company got close but had no authority to act.
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Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 12-09-2011 at 2:52 PM..
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Old 12-09-2011, 2:16 PM
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If it's anything like around here(upstate NY) all the residents of the outlining areas have to do is get an old firetruck park it somewhere and when they can't make the call ask for Mutual Aid. There was a small development in our area that we called no mans land for nearly 40 years, no dept wanted it or would responded there, so they did as I described and every time there was a call they requested M.A.
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Old 12-09-2011, 2:27 PM
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4:00 PM Edit (got rid of quote to avoid post of bad link)
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Old 12-09-2011, 2:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_CJDC_ops View Post
Link is bad (" //http//http") I think you've still got time to edit it..
Thanks! Link fixed...
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Old 12-09-2011, 7:50 PM
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Here is a little history, South Fulton FD 20 years ago came up with a subscription program as a courtesy to those county residence to get fire service that had none. S. Fulton can easily say at next council meeting were tired of the BS and next year no more subscriptions we are staying inside our city limits.
They don't have to offer this service they are simply doing it as a favor to those residents who want it.
NO ONE in Obion County is complaining about this incident, 70% of the population in Obion County pay's the fee.
At my fire dept we had one resident who was on a fixed income who could not afford it, she came to the dept and the firefighters paid her fee out of their own pocket.
However some residents just stick their head in the sand and hope they never have a fire. South Fulton did respond but stopped at the city limits when it was determined it was rural and there was no subscription. It's the media that makes it sound like the rolled up there got out their lawn chairs and watched the show.
The TV station that reported that runs down there every time someones house burns, but they never show up on the fires they roll out and put a good stop on and save the property.

You must also know that when this county commission voted to extend the subscription program to entire county only THREE yes THREE residents bothered to show up and say they did not want this subscription type program. Where was the rest of the 20,000 county residents? They didn't give
a **** about it enough to show up.

All the FF's in Obion County HATE this program but I don't think it will ever change until the state of Tennessee mandates fire service as a essential service like Law Enforcement, EMS and Sanitation this subscription program will most likely remain voluntary. Will this happen again? You bet it will and that TV station will be here right on top of it again.
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Old 12-09-2011, 8:26 PM
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Here is the news article from todays paper.
SF homeowner doesn
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhooten View Post
It is exactly the same thing. City fire assets are being used to put out a fire that is out side the service area, assisting a property owner that did not pay for it.
Mutual aid is a contract between departments for assistance. If department A is not going to respond to the fire, they certainly are not going to call department B, their mutual aid department.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jhooten View Post
Then why even roll the truck to the scene? It waste city fuel and firefighters time.
Lots of thoughts have been bandied out about this - and mainly attributed to exposure protection and safety of life...



Quote:
Originally Posted by jhooten View Post
What are the taxes the county citizens all ready pay being used for? Fire protection is a basic service the government should provide.
The LOW taxes in that county go to things like roads, Sheriffs office, etc. While Fire Protection may be a basic service that government should provide, there, as in THOUSANDS of other places in the US, it is NOT funded by state/local government. The CITIZENS of the county have not voted to change that, even though they have been presented with the chance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jhooten View Post
Let me lay a little what if with you. What if a fire starts outside the city. Fire Department does not respond or responds and stands by just watching because the property owner has not paid additional tribute. The wind picks up blowing embers onto the nearby houses inside the city. Several of those houses begin to burn. So just exactly have they protected the citizens of the city and their property?

There is more to it than just the primary source of the fire. Fire is unpredictable and can get out of hand quickly. One tree in a power line, and 34000 acre gone in no time. (Bastrop Labor day)

This is not about providing fire service. It sounds more like a political urinating tournament. Maybe I wasn't clear earlier. To the leaders of the community, do the right thing the recoup the cost after.
I would imagine that the department would be already there protecting exposure.

But wait - theres more. Turns out because they were told over the phone there was no lives in danger, the South Fulton FD cancelled enroute, the department that was there responded because it was first thought the fire was within city limits, and there was an automatic aid agreement in place. As soon as they realized it was not, they too turned around.

‘Pay for spray’ update: Tennessee’s South Fulton FD says it was not on scene of controversial fire. Local chief says Kentucky company got close but had no authority to act. | STATter911.com
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