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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2013, 5:15 PM
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Because that's pretty much the only way that their lack of understanding about sharing radio channels is going to be resolved. Until then, MURS users around Wal-Mart need to understand that not everyone knows the rules & regs, and operate accordingly.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2013, 7:59 PM
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Well, the "legality" dead horse has been beaten to a pulp as it is (including in this thread), so we're not going to engage in yet another debate about it.

Not all of them use MURS. I think its usage in Wallyworld today is basically limited to the older ones under a "grandfather" clause, so it's dwindling. The "new" WallyWorld on Mill Plain and NE 192nd (actually opened 3-4 years ago) uses an internal soft-PBX built on an 802-11 or DECT system, or something like it. (Same with Portland--scanning out MURS at the numerous locations in the Portland area is hit-and-miss and yields inconsistent results.) Basically, it's supposed to be "impenetrable" to casual outsiders (so they say) but I'm sure there are ways into it as well, though it would be more work than it's probably worth. The "radios" they use look like cordless telephone handsets they might have at home (not cellular phones) and have DTMF keyboards and such, as well as a "walkie-talkie" mode they're probably all used to. Fred Meyer have had a similar system in place for about 10 years now.

I've heard the MURS WallyWorlds will be going to that same system within the next few years or so. If true, enjoy screwing with it/them while you can, because it probably won't be like that for much longer!
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2013, 8:19 PM
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I believe some are on 151.625, 151.955 and the various UHF low-power/itinerants, in addition to 154.570 and 154.600.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2013, 8:14 PM
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Default Just my $0.02

Sec. 95.1309 Channel use policy.

(a) The channels authorized to MURS systems by this part are
available on a shared basis only and will not be assigned for the
exclusive use of any entity.
(b) Those using MURS transmitters must cooperate in the selection
and use of channels in order to reduce interference and make the most
effective use of authorized facilities. Channels must be selected in an
effort to avoid interference to other MURS transmissions.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2013, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_vader View Post
Well, the "legality" dead horse has been beaten to a pulp enough as it is (including in this thread), so we're not going to engage in yet another debate about it.

That said, whether or not the Wal-Mart staffbots realise it, they are in fact communicating within what is now considered publicly-accessable RF spectrum, thus they should hold no expectation of "privacy" or immunity to interference because of it; whether it be from another company across town with a base station or some dude on a mountain bike at a city park two blocks up the street with a $30 Chinese walkie-talkie.
They do not really have expectation of immunity from “unintentional interference” But they have (and all radio operators have) the expectation of immunity from “intentional interference.”

As KC2SUR pointed out…The regulation states…
Quote:
(b) Those using MURS transmitters
must cooperate in the selection and use
of channels in order to reduce interference
and make the most effective
use of authorized facilities. Channels
must be selected in an effort to avoid
interference to other MURS transmissions.
95.1311
Not “can”, Not “should”, but “MUST”!

So, if you do not take active effort to avoid interfering with people, then you can be found in violation.

If you are operating in a way that you KNOW that you will cause interference, then it’s obvious that you are in violation.
If you select a vacant channel, and they come to the channel you are operating on to interfere with your operation, then they will be the one in the wrong, but until then, you are the one in the wrong.

I am not surprised though. We have these same people on ham radio. They think an ongoing conversation should move just because they want to operate on that frequency. They just barge in and try to run everyone off. Or they just start having a conversation while the other people are operating and expect the existing users to just take it. When you point out what they are doing is wrong, they come back with the “I have a right to this frequency just as much as you do.” stupidity.

As I have stated in the other thread, you can have all the regulations and laws in the world, but when people want to be idiots, they will be. No law, or regulation in the world will stop them. Hiram Percy Maxim had his educational implement known as the wolfhong to help educate the LIDs on proper on air conduct.

In ham radio, FRS, MURS, and any other multi channel/frequency service, even CB, there is simple rules on conduct that a are often backed up by enforceable regulation.

First come, first serve, and legacy activity of the channel/frequency.
The first person on that frequency has the right to use it until they vacate it.
If a group uses a frequency day after day, year after year, it is generally accepted that other people should know they are going to be there, so they should try to avoid interfering with them.

Every MURS user does not have a right to use a channel when someone else is using it. That is the reason they have multiple channels. So you can pick a channel that is not being used, so you can avoid interfering with other people. There is not a single channel that every MURS user across the country has to fight over when ever they want to use the radio. It is not the VHF equivalent of the superbowl on CB channel 6

It is the duty of the radio operator to avoid interfering with ongoing conversations, and users when ever he uses his radio equipment. Sometimes unintentional interference can not be avoided. But once the interference becomes known, it is his responsibility to stop interfering. If he continues operating as is, then the interference becomes intentional, then they are breaking the regulations.

There is hierarchy in frequency conflict resolution.

If one group can’t move frequency (their radio equipment is fixed channel) then it is the responsibility of the people that can move, to move.
The stationary user has priority. The people that move into the stationary user’s area are the ones that have to move frequency until they get out of interference range with the stationary user.
The first people to use the frequency has priority. The newcomer has to go elsewhere.
The smaller group of users are expected to move to avoid interfering with a larger group.

Wallyworld users are on fixed channel radios. They can’t move.
Since the MURS user in question was the one under motion (moved into range of the stationary wallyworld users) then it is his duty to move to a vacant channel to avoid interfering with the stationary users.
Since Wallyworld was there first (using the same frequency for years) (before MURS existed). It would be the MURS newcomer that would have the responsibility to move to a different channel.
They are two, the wally world employees are many.

The OP is wrong on all counts, no mater what radio service you go to.

Last edited by Hatchett; 07-26-2013 at 1:17 AM..
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2013, 9:40 PM
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Oky doke.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2013, 2:53 AM
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The WallyWorld in Troutdale uses channel 3, apparently with only carrier squelch. Yesterday when monitoring from my favourite little perch just off the southeastern edge of town, I just had to laugh out loud at the Wal-Mart guy (he identified as such on the air) actually telling the Dakota "alert-zone-one-alert-zone-one-alert-zone-one" machine that kept going off on that channel "will you please find a different frequency, since these are *our* work radios".

He went through that three times that I could count, each time getting noticeably madder, before I left because the harmonics from a couple of the HAM repeaters netting up and the Coast Guard issuing BNMs on 22A were really starting to kill the reception on my PRO-94. Had I brought my two-way with me, I'd have probably keyed up and told him, "dude, look, just betwixt the two of us I know you're a just robot (working where you do) and obviously don't know any better, but IT'S A MACHINE, 'kay? It can't hear you and doesn't understand any of your yelling at it. Get it?"

I really couldn't make something like that up if I tried.

People are funny.

Last edited by Darth_vader; 10-20-2013 at 3:04 AM..
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2013, 7:04 PM
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they actually called me back when i had my run in with Wally world, becuase i wrote a letter to them complaining about the manager of the walmart "Ordering" me off the channel because it was Their "Personal" frequency . needless to say, the primary manager called me, and tried to sell me a " Proprietary Rights to the frequency " clause and i spent a good 1 - 2 hours arguing with him about the regs of MURS and how it is NOT entitled to Walmart's personal exclusive use when im not even on their property! i was across the interstate ( the walmart in question is right next to Interstate I20 in Conyers GA and i was in another shopping complex directly across I20 from walmart)

the argument got to the point that i was going to record the conversation and mail the media ( Tape ) to the FCC of how persistent the manager was about the frequency was "Their" property and how i would also be contacting a few other entities about RF Violations
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2013, 1:28 PM
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I've been in this hobby for a long time.
Never saw the interest in listening to store radios, or drive thru windows.
I mean really,
People sitting and listening to Walmart associates talking about whatever?
Or listening to people order their combo meals at McDonalds.
Or actually talking on their frequencies causing deliberate interference just because they can.
Or walking thru around with your scanner strapped to your side like a six-shooter, thrusting your hip out with every step so all can see the radio.
Do you have your Woody badge on too, big Cowboy?

If any of this sounds like you, get a life.
All kidding aside, listening to retail outlets?
Whoo. Big Time Scanning there.

This whole thread is an example of The Land of The Lame.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2013, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyandotte View Post
I've been in this hobby for a long time.
Never saw the interest in listening to store radios, or drive thru windows.
I mean really,
People sitting and listening to Walmart associates talking about whatever?
Or listening to people order their combo meals at McDonalds.
Or actually talking on their frequencies causing deliberate interference just because they can.
Or walking thru around with your scanner strapped to your side like a six-shooter, thrusting your hip out with every step so all can see the radio.
Do you have your Woody badge on too, big Cowboy?

If any of this sounds like you, get a life.
All kidding aside, listening to retail outlets?
Whoo. Big Time Scanning there.

This whole thread is an example of The Land of The Lame.


talking about your son I assume? you sound like a walmart manager to me, people mess with walmart because they are idiots and think they own the channels. this WAS NOT THE CASE here at 1st, although since the incident I have spread awareness about murs fun around walmart now in a college town this is what they get for thinking there above the rules.

Sec. 95.1309 Channel use policy.

(a) The channels authorized to MURS systems by this part are
available on a shared basis only and will not be assigned for the
exclusive use of any entity.
(b) Those using MURS transmitters must cooperate in the selection
and use of channels in order to reduce interference and make the most
effective use of authorized facilities. Channels must be selected in an
effort to avoid interference to other MURS transmissions.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2013, 4:48 PM
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"I've been in this hobby
*snip*
the 'Land of the Lame'."

So, the Great Scolder has spoken! Great work totally sucking the lifeblood out of a thread, man.

Normally I'd say "different strokes for different folks" here, since contrary to popular belief, monitoring nothing but fire/police/EMS/HAM can sometimes get very monotonous (especially the latter) but I guess it's not meant to be that way for all. Guess I'd better fire up the PRO-94 and delete the several store/fast-food channels I sometimes monitor, since the very idea is apparently illegal now according to King Wyandotte's official royal decree. Thanks so much, Your Majesty.

And yeah, I often have my woody badge on, but not the sort you're thinking of!
(Couldn't resist.)

Last edited by Darth_vader; 11-03-2013 at 4:58 PM..
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:20 AM
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Wyandotte, must work for walmart, cuz it seems to have pushed a nice button for him, and who exactly was that comment directed at? i hope it wasnt me? ill rip a whole new topic at you for that one.

just in case it was, you need to learn to read..... i was using a Handheld MURS to talk to family members, and happened to be within range of a walmart.... so take a hike..... damn troll, and ill show you a woody badge if you want..... my steel toe boot equipped foot!!

and who said anything about causing interference?


Quote:
Or actually talking on their frequencies causing deliberate interference just because they can.
MURS is not licensed to WALMART only....
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Last edited by CapStar362; 11-04-2013 at 11:26 AM..
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:25 AM
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Best thing here would be for the OP and his friend to do is snag some cellphones with the PTT feature on `em, if they (Walmart) can`t find ya, and you can`t get on their freqs, there`s no interference problem. Also, i`ve never heard of anyone being "hauled up" for using a cell in a Walmart. And if they did there`d be one BIG bunch of folks gettin` arrested . N9NRA
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:27 AM
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LOL N9
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2013, 8:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N9NRA View Post
Best thing here would be for the OP and his friend to do is snag some cellphones with the PTT feature on `em, if they (Walmart) can`t find ya, and you can`t get on their freqs, there`s no interference problem. Also, i`ve never heard of anyone being "hauled up" for using a cell in a Walmart. And if they did there`d be one BIG bunch of folks gettin` arrested . N9NRA
this is not the case anymore once we enter the store now EVERYTIME they call the cops to sit there until we are gone, it's now a harassment issue
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:23 PM
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This case is more a case about troublemakers than anyone using any radio as evidenced by the comments you've made.

You are not being harassed if the cops are called while you shop there, they are called to keep the peace. You are lucky the store even lets you shop there, sounds like they have every right to deny you service and have you arrested if you continue to push the matter. Shop elsewhere.

It is not your place to enforce any FCC laws.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyC View Post
This case is more a case about troublemakers than anyone using any radio as evidenced by the comments you've made.

You are not being harassed if the cops are called while you shop there, they are called to keep the peace. You are lucky the store even lets you shop there, sounds like they have every right to deny you service and have you arrested if you continue to push the matter. Shop elsewhere.

It is not your place to enforce any FCC laws.
REALLY? it's not harassment? if I were doing something wrong then yea call them but everytime we pull up that is rediclious, last 5 times or so we all went we did not even take any radios so tell me how there not the ones harassing? only ones making trouble is them.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:57 AM
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Yes, at this point, something like that would most definitely constitute harassment.

But, you need to look at the other side of the situation. As with any other piece of solid-state automated equipment, Wally World drudges are only as intelligent as whomever programmed them. The only reason they're treating you this way is because they've been configured to do so unquestioningly and will probably continue until somebody, likely with administrative access to the on-site server/mainframe they're all slaved from, finally issues the "stop" or "halt" instruction. If yours is anything like the Wally Worlds around here, they probably have everything running on an open 802-11 network with absolutely no encryption or security whatsoever. Thus it'd probably be a trivial matter to sit across the road with any old 802-11 compatible laptop or PDA, pull up telnet and root the Wal-Bot subnetwork controller with the default password and either reconfigure them or just shut 'em all off altogether. Although that's a bit outside the scope of this thread...

Needless to say, technology like this can harass and abuse you, but as the sentient human who's being victimised by the technology, it's ceratinly within your rights and liberties to get the upper hand by harassing and abusing it!

Last edited by Darth_vader; 11-05-2013 at 1:11 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 11-05-2013, 2:47 AM
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REALLY? it's not harassment?
As the old saying goes, you made your bed...
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Old 11-05-2013, 2:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_vader View Post
Yes, at this point, something like that would most definitely constitute harassment.

But, you need to look at the other side of the situation. As with any other piece of solid-state automated equipment, Wally World drudges are only as intelligent as whomever programmed them. The only reason they're treating you this way is because they've been configured to do so unquestioningly and will probably continue until somebody, likely with administrative access to the on-site server/mainframe they're all slaved from, finally issues the "stop" or "halt" instruction. If yours is anything like the Wally Worlds around here, they probably have everything running on an open 802-11 network with absolutely no encryption or security whatsoever. Thus it'd probably be a trivial matter to sit across the road with any old 802-11 compatible laptop or PDA, pull up telnet and root the Wal-Bot subnetwork controller with the default password and either reconfigure them or just shut 'em all off altogether. Although that's a bit outside the scope of this thread...

Needless to say, technology like this can harass and abuse you, but as the sentient human who's being victimised by the technology, it's ceratinly within your rights and liberties to get the upper hand by harassing and abusing it!
I thought you at least were old enough to have a drivers license. Apparently not.
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