The Switch

djones87401 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-26-2012, 8:45 PM

OK so this not a question but how many of the feed providers feel we are getting the short stick here. I use my RR Premium acount more then I will use some scanner thing right. I don't listen to the feeds here now as it stands. I do use the data base and the info here a lot. As feed providers we buy the gear to scan the system to feed. In my case thats a Provoice radio system and Provoice radios are not cheap. On top of that I need the programing software and cables to program the dam radio. After we get the gear we need a computer to send the feed out and we have to have DSL or cable fast enough to send our feeds out. After the feed is up and going we then have to maintain everything to keep it up and going and make repairs. We do all this with our money and our time. We don't get paid yet this new site will make them some money NOT US. I enjoy providing the feed but I enjoy my simple Premium account here more. If I want to listen to something I will fire up one of my many radios or scanner. Not the app on my phone. So why are they making all the money for our feeds. Just my 2 cents see how long this stays posted

EdmontonFireRadio · #2 (**permalink**) 09-26-2012, 9:34 PM

To be honest, I never used the database other than to double check a few talkgroups. The radio system that we scan and provide doesn't really change all that often, and when it does it's easy to add it into the feed radio with a few key presses.

On the other hand, the ability to have six months worth of audio archive vs the 30 days that we currently get will be of interest to a lot of our listeners. So at least in my case I think that it will work out well. But for other people that change their radio configuration frequently I can see how they may not benefit from the new offering for feed providers.

Rob_K · #3 (**permalink**) 09-26-2012, 9:47 PM

I too use the "audio" features more than the DB features but I do use both.

I invested in dedicated hardware and a size-able battery backup to provide the best feeds I can and keep them up even if I lose power. I have at least enough battery for 8 hours of runtime on my feed device, scanners, router, modem, etc. I didn't do all that for access to archives or the database. I did it because it was a fun project and I don't regret spending the money.

I guess I am probably the minority but I'll end up buying a RR premium membership. The leadership on this site are gambling and I'll come up a winner for them ($30 more they'll make off me).

I know most people want a choice between "audio" premium membership or "RR" premium membership. I know that isn't going to happen because it is two sets of books for each company but even we had the choice, I'd pick the "audio" one because it is the better value (free $80 membership vs a $30 membership). If I had nothing for free, I certainly wouldn't pay for the premium "audio" due to the cost. $30 is only a 1/3 of a tank of gas in one of my vehicles....

ibagli · #4 (**permalink**) 09-26-2012, 10:49 PM

RadioReference is a business and has been for a long time. Why is that surprising to some people? There have been scandalized posts ever since the switch was announced about how it's to "make money." Well, yes, of course it is. I'd imagine that's why ScanAmerica was acquired (the polite way of saying bought) by RR in the first place.

kb0nly · #5 (**permalink**) 09-26-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdmontonFireRadio

To be honest, I never used the database other than to double check a few talkgroups. The radio system that we scan and provide doesn't really change all that often, and when it does it's easy to add it into the feed radio with a few key presses.

On the other hand, the ability to have six months worth of audio archive vs the 30 days that we currently get will be of interest to a lot of our listeners. So at least in my case I think that it will work out well. But for other people that change their radio configuration frequently I can see how they may not benefit from the new offering for feed providers.

Yes, but those listeners will have to PAY for that access to the archives.

kb0nly · #6 (**permalink**) 09-26-2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djones87401

OK so this not a question but how many of the feed providers feel we are getting the short stick here. I use my RR Premium acount more then I will use some scanner thing right. I don't listen to the feeds here now as it stands. I do use the data base and the info here a lot. As feed providers we buy the gear to scan the system to feed. In my case thats a Provoice radio system and Provoice radios are not cheap. On top of that I need the programing software and cables to program the dam radio. After we get the gear we need a computer to send the feed out and we have to have DSL or cable fast enough to send our feeds out. After the feed is up and going we then have to maintain everything to keep it up and going and make repairs. We do all this with our money and our time. We don't get paid yet this new site will make them some money NOT US. I enjoy providing the feed but I enjoy my simple Premium account here more. If I want to listen to something I will fire up one of my many radios or scanner. Not the app on my phone. So why are they making all the money for our feeds. Just my 2 cents see how long this stays posted

Who's Leaving Due to Broadcastify?

Funny we both fired up some posts about the same time. I just linked mine here so that maybe some more can vote and be heard.

EdmontonFireRadio · #7 (**permalink**) 09-27-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb0nly

Yes, but those listeners will have to PAY for that access to the archives.

This is true. But since there is a cost to provide the service why wouldn't that cost be passed along if they want access?

If you are interested, here is a company that you can use if you would like to host your own audio server. For $6.95 a month you can have unlimited listeners, unlimited bandwidth as well as various stats for your feed. We currently have two audio servers from Voscast. One for fire and one for EMS that RR is able to relay from our servers to theirs. However we are seriously thinking about switching to using RR audio servers exclusively instead of hosting our own.

It may be a relatively simple matter for you to archive your own audio and create a podcast that your listeners could then download for free if you think that they would like to be able to catch an event on your feed that they missed. But for us it is easier to let the guys at RR do this on our behalf. And if they are able to make some money in the process I don't really have a problem with that as it helps to pay for the infrastructure to keep everything up and running.

djones87401 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-27-2012, 6:42 PM

I think they are missing the point. They are making money off our work. Why don't they start paying us something? I mean they making money by charging people and the adds they going to have up while people listen. Wheres our money for giving them a feed to make money!!!

ibagli · #9 (**permalink**) 09-27-2012, 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb0nly

Yes, but those listeners will have to PAY for that access to the archives.

They already have to pay for access to the archives, and they have since 2009 when RR acquired ScanAmerica.

W9BU · #10 (**permalink**) 09-27-2012, 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djones87401

They are making money off our work. Why don't they start paying us something?

They are.

They are currently paying feed providers $2.50/month. Feed providers currently get a complimentary RadioReference Premium Subscription which is valued at $30/year (which equals $2.50/month).

When the feeds transition to Broadcastify, feed providers will get a complimentary subscription to Broadcastify that is valued at $6.95/month. While you may not see the value in that subscription, you are still being compensated for providing a feed.

My employer may be paying me $75k/year thinking that he's being very generous. If I think my skills and efforts are worth more than that, I may feel that I'm not being properly compensated and that he's a jerk for not paying me more. But, the fact remains, that I am receiving something of value. Same thing with feed providers.

lbpd719 · #11 (**permalink**) 09-27-2012, 10:17 PM

The number of feeds has grown like crazy since the Scan America days..

For me, the problem is not what I am getting in return so much as what I was told I would receive in exchange for providing feeds to the site. I am aware they are in business and looking to make a buck. I can even respect that. What they are now offering, while it does have some value, it does not have the same value to me as the RR subscription. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. To tell me I'm getting an even better benefit because - look, it cost more doesn't hold water with me. You may have a comic book worth $50,000 but it isn't worth that unless someone is willing to pay that much for it.

I think these problems could have been avoided if people would have had more input in the process and at least been given the time to express their feelings. I harbor no ill feelings towards the Mods or Administrators. I think several (including me) will probably leave, and several others will stay. This is a great site, and I will continue to come here and try to contribute to the database.

What I do hope though, is that RR staff is contributing to the open source projects which make up the backbone of the site, such as icecast. If the service (Broadcastify) has a value of $6.95/mo, I would be happy not taking the premium features if a donation was made each month of a similar amount (or obviously less) to the American Cancer Society, MDA, or some other charity. I'd be willing to bet there would be plenty of people willing to take that type of benefit and probably even more interested in starting and maintaining feeds.

JoeyC · #12 (**permalink**) 09-28-2012, 3:19 AM

I keep scratching my head here trying to understand what all this fuss is about.

Providing a feed on RR or Broadcastify is a choice. Its neither a requirement nor a necessity.

Either provide your stream to Broadcastify (free) and accept their payment of a $6.95 per month in the form of a subscription

or

Host the feed on your own or find an alternative hosting service and PAY FOR IT.

Lets see here. PAY for more bandwidth and a 3rd party hosting site, or go the FREE route and have Broadcastify do it? Its not rocket science.

burner50 · #13 (**permalink**) 09-28-2012, 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb0nly

Yes, but those listeners will have to PAY for that access to the archives.

No different than it is now...

marcotor · #14 (**permalink**) 09-30-2012, 12:57 AM

Thanks, Joey. You expressed what I was thinking much better that I could!

My feed is gone, but it had NOTHING to do with the switch.

I hope this allows RR and Broadcastify to continue to grow, and will always be an enthusiastic supporter.

simplec6 · #15 (**permalink**) 10-01-2012, 7:16 PM

This is America, where money is what matters at the end of the day. I say congrats to the RR guys making the bucks.

elk2370bruce · #16 (**permalink**) 10-02-2012, 4:12 PM

Here is another side to this story. How much does it cost for RR to maintain the website, keep the database up current, provide bandwidth for all these posts and feeds? Is there some unknown cash cow with a bloated udder that provides funding for continuing this operation. Quityer*****en or just simply go away.

blantonl · #17 (**permalink**) 10-02-2012, 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbpd719

What I do hope though, is that RR staff is contributing to the open source projects which make up the backbone of the site, such as icecast. .

For the record, we have contributed significant $$ to the icecast development team, in addition to providing lots of traces, core dumps, and other items that have helped the overall icecast community. In return we've gotten feature enhancements and other benefits which have really helped us out.

We are one of the largest users of icecast in the world (maybe the largest?), and the developer of icecast and I have direct dialog often when needed.

lbpd719 · #18 (**permalink**) 10-03-2012, 11:01 PM

That is great - and information that is more public. It goes to show the integrity of RR and the staff.

awattam · #19 (**permalink**) 11-18-2012, 6:58 PM

Not everyone who subscribes to the site, does so to get free live audio feeds. I personally subscribe because without this site my $450 Uniden BCD396XT would be nothing more than a paperweight. That said, I do appreciate the time, cost and effort it takes for the feed providers to do their thing so I thank you.

burner50 · #20 (**permalink**) 11-19-2012, 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awattam

Not everyone who subscribes to the site, does so to get free live audio feeds. I personally subscribe because without this site my $450 Uniden BCD396XT would be nothing more than a paperweight. That said, I do appreciate the time, cost and effort it takes for the feed providers to do their thing so I thank you.

I think you're misunderstanding how this works and what is going on.

The feeds are free, always have been, and I'm not aware of any plans to change that.