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Old 03-29-2014, 10:55 AM
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Smile Volunteer FF/EMT's using Lights

Why does a FF/EMT need "pursuit mode"?
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by triptolemus View Post
Why does a FF/EMT need "pursuit mode"?
I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here and I know you were directing it at the OP (I assume) but he clearly states he is a volunteer FF and an EMT. That means he responds to emergencies. I don't know about you but if they are coming to help me I prefer they get to me as soon as possible. That means running code - lights and siren - to get through traffic quicker.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:51 AM
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I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here and I know you were directing it at the OP (I assume) but he clearly states he is a volunteer FF and an EMT. That means he responds to emergencies. I don't know about you but if they are coming to help me I prefer they get to me as soon as possible. That means running code - lights and siren - to get through traffic quicker.
"Running Code" not only gets you through traffic faster, it gives a "sigh of relief" to the people on scene, dealing with the emergency, or those in need of emergency services. Sirens in the distance help more for morale of those "Civilians" on scene than anything, and in some instances....quells panic and frustration by those with no experience ( Fire Fighting / EMS ).

Sirens are not only physical, they are psychological. They slow heart rates, frustration, anger, rage, confusion. People set back with they hear sirens in the distance and say "They are on their way."

For those injured, especially seriously.....sirens give them hope and that determination to "hang in there."

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Old 03-29-2014, 12:01 PM
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Welcome to the world of EMS!
I have been on shootings ( sniper & self inflicted ) - two hangings, snake bites, OB/GYN, countless car accidents, Inside burning houses, Cardiac Arrest, D.O.A's, Domestic violences, burn patients, Pediatriac emergencys ( fever & cuts ) - Pediatriac arrest - Pediatriac respiratory arrest - Chest Pains, Diabetic emergencies, strokes, explosions, haz-mat scenes...and countless other emergency calls.

Be careful what you welcome people to.


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Old 03-29-2014, 1:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ff-medic View Post
"Running Code" not only gets you through traffic faster, it gives a "sigh of relief" to the people on scene, dealing with the emergency, or those in need of emergency services. Sirens in the distance help more for morale of those "Civilians" on scene than anything, and in some instances....quells panic and frustration by those with no experience ( Fire Fighting / EMS ).

Sirens are not only physical, they are psychological. They slow heart rates, frustration, anger, rage, confusion. People set back with they hear sirens in the distance and say "They are on their way."

For those injured, especially seriously.....sirens give them hope and that determination to "hang in there."

FF - Medic !!!
I have been in law enforcement for over 30 years in a lot of different positions and worked with all types of volunteer helpers, while some of the above is true, one thing volunteers need to realize....when you run emergency lights, siren, etc in a personal vehicle, your car insurance is no good, unless you get a special written addendum to your current insurance. If you don't have this, if you wreck, do damage, hurt, or kill someone, you are on the hook with NO insurance and a possible lean put against you the rest of your life. I have seen this happen to several volunteer fire fighters over the years who lost their homes, cars, and 1/3 of their income for the rest of their life.....just my 2 cents, but I have seen it happen.....be careful
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Old 03-29-2014, 2:52 PM
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I have been in law enforcement for over 30 years in a lot of different positions and worked with all types of volunteer helpers, while some of the above is true, one thing volunteers need to realize....when you run emergency lights, siren, etc in a personal vehicle, your car insurance is no good, unless you get a special written addendum to your current insurance. If you don't have this, if you wreck, do damage, hurt, or kill someone, you are on the hook with NO insurance and a possible lean put against you the rest of your life. I have seen this happen to several volunteer fire fighters over the years who lost their homes, cars, and 1/3 of their income for the rest of their life.....just my 2 cents, but I have seen it happen.....be careful

Where I am from , so long as you travel with "Due regard" , and do not act malicious....YES your insurance is good. It is state code. What use would it be to use your vehicle for an emergency...IF you could not take it anywhere for a response. Volunteer emergency departments would never be able to respond. Lives and property ( The two priorities..in order in a response ) would not be saved. There is a difference between a civil and criminal. And there are specifications as to the description for each one - and the requirements for filing a court action.

( scratching my head )

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Old 03-29-2014, 3:07 PM
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Where I am from , so long as you travel with "Due regard" , and do not act malicious....YES your insurance is good. It is state code. What use would it be to use your vehicle for an emergency...IF you could not take it anywhere for a response. Volunteer emergency departments would never be able to respond. Lives and property ( The two priorities..in order in a response ) would not be saved. There is a difference between a civil and criminal. And there are specifications as to the description for each one - and the requirements for filing a court action.

( scratching my head )

FF - Medic !!!
Easy to find out, call your car insurance company and homeowners insurance company, as a law enforcement officer, we are required, as all states do, to due a minimum of 8 hours emergency driving training each year and tested and recorded, I have been to court several times over the years due to accident investigations involving accidents with officers and the first thing lawyers want to see is the training that they have completed for emergency driving and to see if they have been properly trained in emergency driving....remember, if you are in an accident, you will be sued, whether you are in the right or wrong, they may not collect, but attorney fees start around $ 25,000.00 for these kind of defenses. I am not arguing the point, but I am intelligent enough to listen to someone who has been down this road several times, I don't make the laws, but I do abide by them, I appreciate the volunteers, but ask any paid public safety person who drives a government vehicle and see if they would run emergency without the proper training, for their sake, I hope they would not.
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Old 03-29-2014, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by davo51 View Post
Easy to find out, call your car insurance company and homeowners insurance company, as a law enforcement officer, we are required, as all states do, to due a minimum of 8 hours emergency driving training each year and tested and recorded, I have been to court several times over the years due to accident investigations involving accidents with officers and the first thing lawyers want to see is the training that they have completed for emergency driving and to see if they have been properly trained in emergency driving....remember, if you are in an accident, you will be sued, whether you are in the right or wrong, they may not collect, but attorney fees start around $ 25,000.00 for these kind of defenses. I am not arguing the point, but I am intelligent enough to listen to someone who has been down this road several times, I don't make the laws, but I do abide by them, I appreciate the volunteers, but ask any paid public safety person who drives a government vehicle and see if they would run emergency without the proper training, for their sake, I hope they would not.
The highlighted part above...are you meaning an understood "if you are responding to an emergency in your POV" before the highlighted portion?
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Old 03-29-2014, 3:40 PM
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The highlighted part above...are you meaning an understood "if you are responding to an emergency in your POV" before the highlighted portion?
If you have been in Public Safety anytime at all, you know lawyers live for lawsuits against emergency vehicles, ask an attorney what his opinion is on this, but volunteers, sad to say, usually will not have a city or county government to back them up. I have never seen a POV that was running emergency and involved in an accident that it did not end up in a lawsuit, because attorneys know that most have not met or received the proper training for running emergency and most can't afford the attorney fees to get them to fight the lawsuit and they lose. Remember, in a lawsuit, right and wrong mean nothing, whoever has the most money to spend on lawyers wins. We have several volunteer fire stations around our city and I have seen to it that the proper paper work was filled out for them to receive workers comp. insurance if hurt while fighting a fire, before we did this, they were not covered. Our City, County, and State attorneys have said for the volunteer fire fighters to not run emergency and if they do, they are on their own. I remember when I went thru the police academy many years ago, a very large sign on the driving course said "Arrive Safely" because you can't help anyone if you are in an accident and responders have to help you instead of the incident they are headed to. I am not an attorney nor am I giving any advice, I just know what has happened to fellows that were just trying to do the right thing. I would suggest, if I were a volunteer fire fighter, to get a letter from the city or county attorney showing that the city or county will back me up, accept responsibility, and pay legal fees for me while in the performance of the duties of a volunteer fire fighter. I have been involved in several shootings, each time I was cleared, but I still got sued, thankfully my agency paid the $100,000.00 legal fees each time it went to court. Don't kill the messenger, just make sure you guys are covered.
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Old 03-29-2014, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by davo51 View Post
If you have been in Public Safety anytime at all, you know lawyers live for lawsuits against emergency vehicles, ask an attorney what his opinion is on this, but volunteers, sad to say, usually will not have a city or county government to back them up. I have never seen a POV that was running emergency and involved in an accident that it did not end up in a lawsuit, because attorneys know that most have not met or received the proper training for running emergency and most can't afford the attorney fees to get them to fight the lawsuit and they lose. Remember, in a lawsuit, right and wrong mean nothing, whoever has the most money to spend on lawyers wins. We have several volunteer fire stations around our city and I have seen to it that the proper paper work was filled out for them to receive workers comp. insurance if hurt while fighting a fire, before we did this, they were not covered. Our City, County, and State attorneys have said for the volunteer fire fighters to not run emergency and if they do, they are on their own. I remember when I went thru the police academy many years ago, a very large sign on the driving course said "Arrive Safely" because you can't help anyone if you are in an accident and responders have to help you instead of the incident they are headed to. I am not an attorney nor am I giving any advice, I just know what has happened to fellows that were just trying to do the right thing. I would suggest, if I were a volunteer fire fighter, to get a letter from the city or county attorney showing that the city or county will back me up, accept responsibility, and pay legal fees for me while in the performance of the duties of a volunteer fire fighter. I have been involved in several shootings, each time I was cleared, but I still got sued, thankfully my agency paid the $100,000.00 legal fees each time it went to court. Don't kill the messenger, just make sure you guys are covered.
OK. Wasn't arguing your point, just making sure that is what you meant.
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Old 03-29-2014, 9:58 PM
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Huh, weird, I thought this was a thread about an install in a 2006 Chevy Tahoe LT POV and not another thread about warning lights and legal advice.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:08 AM
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Default 2006 Chevy Tahoe LT POV Setup

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Huh, weird, I thought this was a thread about an install in a 2006 Chevy Tahoe LT POV and not another thread about warning lights and legal advice.
Yeah, you're right. But, nobody's being bashed here. What's wrong with someone contributing information that could be helpful to anybody considering using a POV in the performance of first responder / public safety duties?
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Old 03-30-2014, 1:01 AM
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Yeah, you're right. But, nobody's being bashed here. What's wrong with someone contributing information that could be helpful to anybody considering using a POV in the performance of first responder / public safety duties?
You're right, I never said anyone was being bashed here. What's wrong with it is there are several other threads that discuss the topic of warning lights ad nauseam, the title of this forum is "pictures of your shack/mobile setup". This topic was created to discuss his mobile setup, not for people to give unsolicited (and potentially bad) legal advice about warning lights. You will notice that OP is not participating in the warning light discussion and this thread is no longer about his install. I don't have an opinion on the lights either way, but geez, every thread of a volunteer firefighter doesn't always have to end in a discussion about the legal ramifications of having warning lights.
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Old 03-30-2014, 1:13 AM
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Default 2006 Chevy Tahoe LT POV Setup

I get what you are saying. The self-appointed police posts do get annoying after a while. To explain myself a bit better, I've spent over ten years as an LEO and unfortunately I've seen some of the legal nightmares that result when good guys with the best of intentions get caught up in bad situations and are left swinging in the wind to face down a high-dollar personal injury attorney.

I suppose that in this case, I viewed the discussion more as fellow public safety folks looking out for one another as opposed to an off topic rant about legal ramifications of woo woo lights. That's all.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KF5LSC View Post
I've spent over ten years as an LEO and unfortunately...............


Well in that case, you need these for your truck :

Cool vehicle graphics and paint job = http://nhwraps.com/blog/vehicle-grap...icle-graphics/

Lightbar = Liberty™ Series - Whelen Engineering Automotive

Grille Guard = http://www.fleetsafety.com/expeditio...rd-by-progard/

Dual band mobile radio = Vertex Standard | VX-6000

P25 Mobile radio = Vertex Standard | VX-7200

Portable / Mobile repeater = Vertex Standard | VXR-1000

Analog / P25 Portable = Vertex Standard | VX-P920


Antennas for the top of the truck = One VHF- Low band antenna, One VHF- Highband antenna, Two UHF antennas ( one UHF Conventional and one UHF P25 ) and and One antenna for the portable repeater.

Tint the back and rear passenger windows.



Just a suggestion ----------> FF - Medic !!!
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Last edited by ff-medic; 04-11-2014 at 1:04 PM..
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Old 04-11-2014, 1:02 PM
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Huh, weird, I thought this was a thread about an install in a 2006 Chevy Tahoe LT POV and not another thread about warning lights and legal advice.
+1

Why does this happen EVERY TIME someone puts up a picture of a lightbar in/on their car?

I swear, if I see one more of these "OMG why do you have a lightbar" posts I'm gonna put one on my Toyota Camry. Not a stealth one or anything but an honest to God on-top-of-the-car red and blue bright as daylight strobe flashing "pull over right now" lightbar. I'm gonna mount it on the car, turn it on, AND DRIVE AROUND MY NEIGHBORHOOD with it on and a siren blaring. Then I'll upload pictures of me doing that and then sit back and watch the masses foam at the mouth and lose their minds.

Honestly. The man is a volunteer firefighter. Let him do his job in peace, he certainly isn't getting paid to do it, now is he?

Nice install by the way. I like it.

-AZ
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Old 04-11-2014, 2:12 PM
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All the nay sayers so just go F themselves, if you are authorized by agency or VTL then have at at. I took off my authorized light bar (by Chief and VTL) because of the traffic and how people act stupid when they see it. I now have just one LED light on the dash.
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Old 04-11-2014, 2:18 PM
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+1


Honestly. The man is a volunteer firefighter. Let him do his job in peace, he certainly isn't getting paid to do it, now is he?



-AZ
The Largest part of Volunteer Firefighters are just as knowledgable and professional as career firefighters.

Some departments are poor, and some have money to "Do well " with the department.

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Old 04-11-2014, 2:26 PM
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Our State REQUIRES Volunteers have the same and as much training as Career. I don't think originally it was aimed at making everybody equal but to entice some agencies to go Career from Volunteer. BTW he was a Democrat, and that has happened to a few Fire Departments, and taxes have gone up accordingly. Which is what he wanted.
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Old 04-11-2014, 4:23 PM
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Our State REQUIRES Volunteers have the same and as much training as Career. I don't think originally it was aimed at making everybody equal but to entice some agencies to go Career from Volunteer.
It takes money to turn a volunteer department in a career department. And lots of it.

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BTW he was a Democrat, and that has happened to a few Fire Departments, and taxes have gone up accordingly. Which is what he wanted.
I would expect that sometime down the road, the U.S. Government will regulate volunteer fire departments out of existance. Some people in the U.S and at the State and Federal levels, in various locaitions in the United States....dislike volunteer deparments...and see them for very much less than what they really are.

Firemen and EMS seldom get paid enough for what they do, and have to go through. Their knowledge, experience, ability, skills, and all the certifications they have......THEY do not get paid enough.

When I worked full time EMS, after I left a volunteer EMS department....I worked hard, long hours and steady. And working hard and steady was not hardly worth the pay I was receiving from a fulltime - paid agency. BUT....I absolutely loved riding on an ambulance - running trauma calls, doing patient assessment ( lung sounds - neuro and vascular assessments - Ausculation of heart sounds - palpations ) and other things. My first truck, I worked with a guy I graduated from class with. Six months or so after that, I had my own truck and ended up working with 4 or 5 EMTs that was fresh out of class. I trained each and every one of them.

At one time, I was the "Professor" of 12 lead EKGs , and we regularily practiced ( read and diagnosed 12 lead EKGS on the company "Intra-Net") EKG intepretation. EKG's was my niche, and one of my greatest strong points in EMS ; and I had a slew of them from patients I cared for. I am not as anxious and outgoing for Fire and Emergency calls as I used to be. But when I did / and still do. I take the patient and family into consideration.

I would love to see alot of rural fire departments, that are "Clear out in the boondocks" go "paid" through federal monies. Those departments that are "way out in the sticks" and can be on scene quickly.

Volunteer EMS agencies that are "Way out there" could also go paid. Federal money could help alot of residents, or money set aside from hospital endowments maybe could help out.

Rural Departments , both Fire and EMS, is the backbone and blood stream of America. Without them......most locations would not survive. But it hurts me to see a fire apparatus ( primary engine ) go down the road with a 1970 rotating lightbar, and is 40 + years old. 500 gallons of water ( or less ) don't do much on a structure fire, or a brush fire for that matter. And since the department lacks proper money and
funding......training is compromised. Old equipment...or no equipment, old style, and "Veteran" firefighters hurts recruiting. No one is interested. Communitys fail in fire protection, insurance rates climb, and there is no one there to adequately deal with a disaster, fire, or emergency.

I do fire inspections, fire prevention, and a host of other things. From about the year 2006 to 2010 ( ?? 5 years total ?? ) , I tested about 800 feet of fire hose, BY MYSELF......... EACH year - in front of our fire station. What normally is done as a shift effort ( 4 - 5 people ) ...I completed by myself, in weeks, and very much alone. Take the hose off the rack, carry it to the truck, hook the hose up to the truck, crank the pump up and pressure test the fire hose. Disconnect the hose, drain the hose, roll the hose up and take it back to the "rack". One year I had one guy ( he has since retired ) help me test about 200 feet of hose. But other than that, I done it by myself. I popped pain meds for my lower back pain for two or three days. ( "Advil" works wonders )

Walk up and down multiple flights of stairs with 50 to 100 feet of fire hose on your shoulders, sometimes very wet fire hose. Bend over and properly roll up 800 feet of fire hose.

Deal with Haz-Mat Incidents, Dangerous vapors, metal fires, hydralic fires, a "good chance" for a "Hot Metal explosion", and a large host of other dangers...and you can see, my salary....along with many others, is not level, or "on par" for our experience, training, huge responsiblity, years of service and skill set.

Volunteers ( EMS & Fire ) at times do just as much, if not more than paid departments. They evidently love their job, and they have a sense of community service....or they would not be there. They to....The volunteers...are Underpaid.


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