Science Project Ideas?

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lazyfortress

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A couple days ago, our new science topic is now physics, and we have to do a science project, physics related. I asked the teacher if something with antennas would be fine for a project, and he said I could. Do any of you know what antenna would be good for regular satellite reception with an RTL-SDR? I'm interested in the MILCOM satellite frequencies. What antenna would be good for that? And does the RTL-SDR work with Mac? Thanks! What science project could I make with receiving different satellite signals? I was thinking about using different antenna types and mainly focusing on which antenna is good for MILCOM, weather, or regular (AMSAT) reception. I'm in the 8th grade by the way. What is the easiest MILSAT to get on the RTL? Easiest satellite to get on either the RTL or a RadioShack scanner?
 

prcguy

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Military satellite reception is very elusive and over 99% is encrypted, except for occasional Brazilian pirates using US satellites. Otherwise its probably the easiest to pick up using a dongle receiver and an easy to make antenna.

The basic frequency range is about 245 to 270MHz, well within an RTL dongle's capability. The Brazil pirates seem to use the same frequency of 255.55MHz so they are easy to find. The satellites use circular polarized antennas but its fairly easy to create circular polarization. I think a pair of cross dipoles fed 90deg out of phase and about .25 wavelength over a ground plane would be a good basic directional antenna with some gain and circular pol.

You could start with a hardware cloth ground plane about 24" square, then put a galvanized steel 1/2" pipe flange in the middle of it. Then get a PVC pipe threaded adapter for 1/2" PVC pipe and glue a length of 1/2" PVC pipe in so the whole thing is about 10" long when threaded into the pipe flange and sticking out from the hardware cloth.

Then you need a pair of dipoles which you can make out of #12 house wire or 1/8" welding rod, etc. Each element will be about 10 1/2" long and you can drill small holes about 1/4 down from the end of the PVC pipe to hold the wire tightly. Looking down at the end of the PVC pipe the elements should look like + sticking out of the sides of the pipe.

Then you need some 50 ohm coaxial cable as a feedline connected to one pair of dipoles and a short run of RG-58 should be fine. Then you would need about 8.5" of 75 ohm coax as a delay line feeding the other dipole to create circular polarization and to feed the other dipole, RG-59 or RG-6 would work. The 75 ohm cable would connect to the junction of the 50 ohm coax on one pair of dipoles then to the other dipole.

The hard part is you would need to first tune each dipole to resonate around 260MHz with a 50 ohm cable attached, then trim the 75 ohm cable to 260MHz using an antenna analyzer or similar. The lengths can be calculated somewhat but bare ends of coax flared out to reach the dipole elements will skew the calculated length some at these frequencies.

Another hurdle is configuring the polarity of the coax that receives only the 75 ohm coax so you end up with Right Hand Circular Polarity. Get it right and the antenna will receive great. Get it backwards and it probably won't pick up anything. The only way to get it right is to monitor some rare satellite signals and swap the coax polarity and go with what works best. Or have someone make the antenna I described, find the proper way to connect the coax and post the results.

I might be able to do this but no guarantee on when. If you do end up perusing something like this you will be demonstrating an antenna that has directional properties, gain and circular polarity. Plus picking up signals from around 22, 300mi in space. BTW the Brazilian pirates are using a satellite at either 100deg W or 105deg W and from your approximate location (Baltimore?) the look angle would be around 38deg elevation and 215deg azimuth for the 100deg slot or 36deg elevation and 220deg for the 105 slot. With the antenna described you could easily point at one orbital slot and pick up the other since the antenna has a fairly wide beam.
prcguy
 
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RFI-EMI-GUY

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This sounds like an exciting and do-able project. My first satellite monitoring was of the FLTSATCOM system using a military discone. That antenna had virtually no gain. I did build a preamp for 260 MHz . Using the RTL and some receive filtering mounted at the antenna can eliminate some feedline losses. Get some spectrum screen shots and record some of the pirates and other clear signals. There are old Russian mobile phones that are passing through the satellites at about 266 MHz. You can identify them by an idle tone and pulse dialing.
 

krokus

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Since you are trying to show physics aspects, you might consider demonstrating Doppler Shift on signals from Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites. Amateurs might give you a good options for this principle, on the SSB signals. Some weather satellites might work, too.

Sent via Tapatalk
 

lazyfortress

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I've had trouble with receiving AO-7. I've tried using the frequency 145.970 and up to 145.975, but I heard nothing. What is the most accurate satellite tracker? I used SATVIEW, N2YO, and the AMSAT tracking page. Nothing, no signals. I did hear a slight, very faint "beeeep" a couple times, but that was probably a computer or something. By the way I never acquired a satellite on my scanner. I am currently using the PRO-649 with the standard antenna. Is it easy to get satellite signals? Am I doing something wrong? Oh, and about the discone, would the radioshack discone work for average satellite monitoring and possible MILSAT, or do I need something better? What's the best RTL-SDR to buy?
 

prcguy

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You can hear the UHF satellites with minimal equipment if the feedline loss is very low. In the 80s I used to listen to UHF Satcom on a RS Discone and RS PRO-2005 scanner with about 35ft of 1/2" hardline. Signals were weak but I could copy lots of stuff.

When working on the X-wing satellite antenna project I was surprised to receive Brazilian pirates on a Yupiteru MVT-7100 hand held scanner with rubber duck antenna and inside my house. They came in loud and clear with a Maldol AL-500H VHF/UHF airband antenna. Just for grins I just set up my MVT-7100 near me with an Austin Condor antenna on 255.55 to see if I can hear any pirates while I type this out.

I've never pursued amateur satellites and you need to know when they are overhead and within range, otherwise you may go for days without hearing anything.
prcguy

You will sure need a beam antenna not a discone and also a preamp,other wise you are not going to hear nothing at all......
 

Your_account

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here in europe i cant hear anything in english. there are some german sat but i never try to get anything.
 

lazyfortress

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Any Omni-directional antennas good for SATCOM? What type of wire is needed to plug in an antenna into a rtl-sdr?
 

prcguy

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Check post #11 in this thread: http://forums.radioreference.com/sa...8-mt-magazine-uhf-satcom-antenna-project.html

That would be the only UHF satcom antenna that works really good that is mostly omni-directional that doesn't cost several thousand $$ that I know of. Unless you score a similar mil surplus version on Ebay. You need some basic mechanical skills to build it but many have done it with excellent results. Its only designed for UHF satcom and nothing else.

Otherwise a Discone can receive some UHF satcom stuff depending on many variables, like a low look angle to the satellite and having a short length of very low loss coax helps. But a Discone has no gain and is vertically polarized, where the UHF satellites are circular polarized and you loose about 3dB or half your signal just from the polarization mismatch.

A Discone is a great all around antenna for VHF/UHF monitoring but its just not designed for satellite reception.
prcguy

Any Omni-directional antennas good for SATCOM? What type of wire is needed to plug in an antenna into a rtl-sdr?
 

wtp

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time differece of antenna's

how about showing the difference of size of a 1916 antenna to a 2016 one ?
a picture of a Marconi set up versus a GPS unit.
you could even string a long wire around the room or school for show.
 

lazyfortress

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Will any RTL-SDR work for SATCOM reception? The project I'm doing is about which types of antennas are good for certain frequencies, such as SATCOM, aircraft, MILCOM, police/fire, and boats. Thanks for all of your information by the way! I really appreciate it. Now the only problem is what antennas I need and which RTL-SDR is cheap and efficient for this project. Now when I go to an airport (BWI in my case), will I be able to hear actual ATC or just aircraft themselves with a scanner (not SDR)?
 

lazyfortress

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I found a new antenna! Would this work?: Arrow Antenna Hand Held Portable 146 437 440 element Yagi Satellite
What frequencies should I ask for to be tuned (like 137-270 MHz)? And what type of cable would work for a SDR? Would this antenna work for SATCOM reception by sitting by a window and scan, or do I have to be outside to do it? (It's winter you know... hahaha, I'm lazy) Is there any way to configure a PRO-649 scanner to receive the military band, or am I stuck with what I got? Would this be a good dongle?:Buy RTL-SDR Dongles (RTL2832U) - rtl-sdr.com
 
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