Which antenna will pull in this system.

[mlconnell]

Okay guy's I am about 50 Miles away from Las Cruces, NM in East El Paso, TX. I cannot receive the Las Cruces EDACS system here so I packed up the BCT-15 and took a road trip. I was receiving the Las Cruces system on the West side of El Paso but very noisy and 1 signal bar about 22 miles from my house. I proceded into Las Cruces and noticed I could pickup the El Paso Mot II system in my car the whloe way there. Must be more power. I was using a glass mount all band scanner antenna on my rear window.
My question is that since I can barely get the Las Cruces system 22 miles from here in my mobile which antenna can I pull in the Las Cruces EDACS system about 30ft up at my house? Also what kind of cable should I purchase. Price is not an option. Thanks for your help in advance. I'm not real good at understanding antennas.

Mike

 

[737mech]

Try this

Okay guy's I am about 50 Miles away from Las Cruces, NM in East El Paso, TX. I cannot receive the Las Cruces EDACS system here so I packed up the BCT-15 and took a road trip. I was receiving the Las Cruces system on the West side of El Paso but very noisy and 1 signal bar about 22 miles from my house. I proceded into Las Cruces and noticed I could pickup the El Paso Mot II system in my car the whloe way there. Must be more power. I was using a glass mount all band scanner antenna on my rear window.
My question is that since I can barely get the Las Cruces system 22 miles from here in my mobile which antenna can I pull in the Las Cruces EDACS system about 30ft up at my house? Also what kind of cable should I purchase. Price is not an option. Thanks for your help in advance. I'm not real good at understanding antennas.

Mike

Try the cheap way first, build the "off center fed dipole" and use rg-6 for feed line. Here's the idea.
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/antenna-forum/33753-off-center-fed-vhf-uhf-vertical-dipole.html
Read the entire post, I tried the copper tube method. You will be pleased with the results. And it's fun and cheap to try.

If you decide to try it please post your results.

 

[zz0468]

You may find that it's just not possible to hear Las Cruces from home. Some systems are specifically designed NOT to cover in certain directions for distances. Put up a good quality omni antenna for local coverage. If you can hear Las Cruces at all, adding a yagi might help. If you hear nothing at all, then there's probably nothing you can do.

Just because you can hear East El Paso in Las Cruces does not automatically mean you should be able to heare Las Cruces in East El Paso.

 

[SkipSanders]

Range is LINE OF SIGHT.

50 miles is not going to happen unless the transmitter site is at least 2000 feet up, and there are no mountains/hills between you and it.

A better antenna can improve a signal that's already present, but weak. It won't magically generate a signal that just isn't present in the first place.

Best antenna for attempting long range? Directional (yagi) gain antenna, pointed the right way, mounted as high as you can practically manage. Will it work? Not if there's a hill/planet in the way.

 

[hoser147]

You might want to try ScanAmerica.us and see if there is possibly a feed for the system you want to monitor. Good Luck

 

[mlconnell]

Range is LINE OF SIGHT.

50 miles is not going to happen unless the transmitter site is at least 2000 feet up, and there are no mountains/hills between you and it.

A better antenna can improve a signal that's already present, but weak. It won't magically generate a signal that just isn't present in the first place.

Best antenna for attempting long range? Directional (yagi) gain antenna, pointed the right way, mounted as high as you can practically manage. Will it work? Not if there's a hill/planet in the way.

Yeah that right Skip. I don't have a FSM to test for the signal either. I guess if I lived about 22 miles west of here I could try to pull in the weak signal. Thanks for the post. Guess I need to tell the wife were moving.. HA HA... I'll tell her hey remember that $500.00 scanner I'm buying next month.. well we need to move to the west side now... HA HA... That would go over real well...

 

[mlconnell]

You may find that it's just not possible to hear Las Cruces from home. Some systems are specifically designed NOT to cover in certain directions for distances. Put up a good quality omni antenna for local coverage. If you can hear Las Cruces at all, adding a yagi might help. If you hear nothing at all, then there's probably nothing you can do.

Just because you can hear East El Paso in Las Cruces does not automatically mean you should be able to heare Las Cruces in East El Paso.

Thanks for the post zz. Yeah I knew it would not make a difference being able to pickup El Paso from Las Cruces with this quest but I just thought I would mention the EP MOT II System is readable there. Appreciate you answering back.. Thanks Again

 

[mlconnell]

Try the cheap way first, build the "off center fed dipole" and use rg-6 for feed line. Here's the idea.
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/antenna-forum/33753-off-center-fed-vhf-uhf-vertical-dipole.html
Read the entire post, I tried the copper tube method. You will be pleased with the results. And it's fun and cheap to try.

If you decide to try it please post your results.

I will let you know.. I need a base antenna anyway.. Appreciate the idea even if it does not work it will be needed anyway. I'll post results.

 

[zz0468]

Thanks for the post zz. Yeah I knew it would not make a difference being able to pickup El Paso from Las Cruces with this quest but I just thought I would mention the EP MOT II System is readable there. Appreciate you answering back.. Thanks Again

Well, the fact that you hear one system but not the other kind of indicates that there might be a path but other factors come to play. Of course, I'm in Calif, and have no clue what the terrain there is like. But I do know that for a variety of reasons, some systems simply don't leak much signal beyond their designed coverage area, and that's usually intentional.

 

[mlconnell]

Well, the fact that you hear one system but not the other kind of indicates that there might be a path but other factors come to play. Of course, I'm in Calif, and have no clue what the terrain there is like. But I do know that for a variety of reasons, some systems simply don't leak much signal beyond their designed coverage area, and that's usually intentional.

zz just found out that the Franklin Mountains are in my path going into Las Cruces. Thats why I heard it at 1H-10 and Mesa cause I was past the Mountains already. Thats probably why El Paso Comes in there... they must have a site on the Franklin Mountains. Aint that the ****s - Oh well it was not that good of a system anyway.

 

[mlconnell]

Try the cheap way first, build the "off center fed dipole" and use rg-6 for feed line. Here's the idea.
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/antenna-forum/33753-off-center-fed-vhf-uhf-vertical-dipole.html
Read the entire post, I tried the copper tube method. You will be pleased with the results. And it's fun and cheap to try.

If you decide to try it please post your results.

Mech I made that indoor antenna. It works pretty good. Alot better than my copper J-Pole on the roof. (Tri-Bander, but have the lead attached to the 2 meter side. It's a 2 Meter, 70 Centimeter and a 1.2 Ghz. I don't have any leads connected to the other bands though and just use it for my Yaesu right now.)

I will make the J-Pole version also since I have copper and stuff. Just need some connectors.
Thanks for that lead. Hey what if you alter the lenghts? Where do you get 48" and 18"? Just curious.
Is there a program that will tell you these measurements? (Or conversion). Is it kind of like figuring out the length to TX on the HAM RADIO? What is the conversion? It seems to pull in aircraft real good and 800 Mhz sounds ok also. Is that a multiband antenna or do I have to do something to it to optimize it on other freqs. Thanks Again.

 

[737mech]

OCFD antenna

Mech I made that indoor antenna. It works pretty good. Alot better than my copper J-Pole on the roof. (Tri-Bander, but have the lead attached to the 2 meter side. It's a 2 Meter, 70 Centimeter and a 1.2 Ghz. I don't have any leads connected to the other bands though and just use it for my Yaesu right now.)

I will make the J-Pole version also since I have copper and stuff. Just need some connectors.
Thanks for that lead. Hey what if you alter the lenghts? Where do you get 48" and 18"? Just curious.
Is there a program that will tell you these measurements? (Or conversion). Is it kind of like figuring out the length to TX on the HAM RADIO? What is the conversion? It seems to pull in aircraft real good and 800 Mhz sounds ok also. Is that a multiband antenna or do I have to do something to it to optimize it on other freqs. Thanks Again.

I wish I knew if there was specific lengths, I posted that very question on the forum. I don't have info on a program or specifics. I just went on the dimensions they showed and it worked really good for me. Bandwidth went up by using copper tube instead of wire. I tried a smaller version, 18" long side 9" short side. It worked ok but the original version is what I am using right now in the attic. My best stuff coming in from this antenna are the 800, 900, 400 trunked systems here in Las Vegas. Also it pulls 400 range conventional very good. So yes I'd have to say for me this is a multiband antenna. If you build a jpole please post a plan or picture.

 

[N_Jay]

Okay guy's I am about 50 Miles away from Las Cruces, NM in East El Paso, TX. I cannot receive the Las Cruces EDACS system here so I packed up the BCT-15 and took a road trip. I was receiving the Las Cruces system on the West side of El Paso but very noisy and 1 signal bar about 22 miles from my house. I proceded into Las Cruces and noticed I could pickup the El Paso Mot II system in my car the whloe way there. Must be more power. I was using a glass mount all band scanner antenna on my rear window.
My question is that since I can barely get the Las Cruces system 22 miles from here in my mobile which antenna can I pull in the Las Cruces EDACS system about 30ft up at my house? Also what kind of cable should I purchase. Price is not an option. Thanks for your help in advance. I'm not real good at understanding antennas.

Mike

Antennas don't "pull in" anything.

They just capture what is going by.
If nothing is going by from that system then the best antenna in the world is not going to receive it.

 

[737mech]

Correction

Antennas don't "pull in" anything.

They just capture what is going by.
If nothing is going by from that system then the best antenna in the world is not going to receive it.

You are correct I should have stated the antenna and scanner combination is an improvement over other combinations in such a way that more numerous communications are audibly heard. It isn't pulling anything in.

 

[N_Jay]

You are correct I should have stated the antenna and scanner combination is an improvement over other combinations in such a way that more numerous communications are audibly heard. It isn't pulling anything in.

And band,. and height of TX and height of RX, and general train between.

 

[737mech]

Line of sight

And band,. and height of TX and height of RX, and general train between.

Slight spelling error I'm sure you meant terrain not train. I'm no expert on line of sight and antenna science and I am sure you said in all cases line of sight is everything. If I can hear on my scanner an aircraft reporting his position to air traffic control and that position is 75 miles away from me, and the aircraft is at 14,000 feet then I should assume he is in fact line of sight correct? I'm at 2000' elevation and often hear aircraft over the Nellis Range reporting 14,000 feet and the fixed position departing restricted air space on the range. (note that a reported atc elevation in this case is only 10,000 feet AGL since aircraft reset the altimeters after they go above 10,000 feet to standard 29.92 inches of mercury) Not at 14,000 AGL his actual elevation would be 10,000 feet AGL. Now here's the really odd thing, I have heard aircraft reporting position 15 miles west of Tonopah, NV. How is that possible over 160 miles away? Still line of sight?

 

[N_Jay]

Slight spelling error I'm sure you meant terrain not train.

Well I have seen paths where trains block the signal, but yes, I did mean terrain.

I'm no expert on line of sight and antenna science and I am sure you said in all cases line of sight is everything.

It is a lot, but it is not everything.

If I can hear on my scanner an aircraft reporting his position to air traffic control and that position is 75 miles away from me, and the aircraft is at 14,000 feet then I should assume he is in fact line of sight correct?I'm at 2000' elevation and often hear aircraft over the Nellis Range reporting 14,000 feet and the fixed position departing restricted air space on the range. (note that a reported atc elevation in this case is only 10,000 feet AGL since aircraft reset the altimeters after they go above 10,000 feet to standard 29.92 inches of mercury) Not at 14,000 AGL his actual elevation would be 10,000 feet AGL.

Good bet.

Now here's the really odd thing, I have heard aircraft reporting position 15 miles west of Tonopah, NV. How is that possible over 160 miles away? Still line of sight?

Do the math and see.

 

[zz0468]

I'm at 2000' elevation and often hear aircraft over the Nellis Range reporting 14,000 feet and the fixed position departing restricted air space on the range. (note that a reported atc elevation in this case is only 10,000 feet AGL since aircraft reset the altimeters after they go above 10,000 feet to standard 29.92 inches of mercury) Not at 14,000 AGL his actual elevation would be 10,000 feet AGL. Now here's the really odd thing, I have heard aircraft reporting position 15 miles west of Tonopah, NV. How is that possible over 160 miles away? Still line of sight?

This is incorrect. It's 18,000 feet where they reset altimeters to 29.92. Below 18,000 feet, the altimeter is set to the appropriate local barometer setting. That might be at their departure or arrival airport...

If the pilot is reporting 14,000 feet, the AGL elevation would not be 10,000 feet, unless the terrain is actually 4000 feet in elevation. It would vary, depending on terrain elevation, referenced to sea level. Pilots report their altitude based on barometric pressure as read by the altimeter, not how high above the ground they are.

Just thought I'd clarify that... carry on. =)

 

[737mech]

Correct

This is incorrect. It's 18,000 feet where they reset altimeters to 29.92. Below 18,000 feet, the altimeter is set to the appropriate local barometer setting. That might be at their departure or arrival airport...

If the pilot is reporting 14,000 feet, the AGL elevation would not be 10,000 feet, unless the terrain is actually 4000 feet in elevation. It would vary, depending on terrain elevation, referenced to sea level. Pilots report their altitude based on barometric pressure as read by the altimeter, not how high above the ground they are.

Just thought I'd clarify that... carry on. =)

Oops, you are correct FEDERAL AIR REGULATIONS 14CFR PART 91.121 18,000 FEET RESET ALTIMETER TO 29.92. So if the pilot in question reported departing 14,000 feet and the field elevation of origin is 4400' then in fact he is still 10,000 agl.

 

[N_Jay]

This is incorrect. It's 18,000 feet where they reset altimeters to 29.92. Below 18,000 feet, the altimeter is set to the appropriate local barometer setting. That might be at their departure or arrival airport...

If the pilot is reporting 14,000 feet, the AGL elevation would not be 10,000 feet, unless the terrain is actually 4000 feet in elevation. It would vary, depending on terrain elevation, referenced to sea level. Pilots report their altitude based on barometric pressure as read by the altimeter, not how high above the ground they are.

Just thought I'd clarify that... carry on. =)

I always thought you reset your altimeter at 10,000 ft also, but I am no pilot.