Need help for a 45-50' mast solution

[NJ-Radio]

Ok guys. I need the experts to help me out here.
Today I attempted to get my Tram UHF antenna higher to help my reception of NYPD frequencies in NY.
I'm currently at about 35' high on top of the house. Since going higher than that would get a bit dangerous
on the roof, I decided to do a "ground-up" solution.
I bought some of those awful Radio Shack 10' masts thinking I can connect them together, along with a 5' section I have, to achieve the 45' I wanted.
I used a nearby trees thick branches to lean the mast as I gradually raised it and slid it upwards as I added sections. Well, to my utter disgust, the masts began bending the higher I raised it It created a near 90 degree angle. I tried my best to "rock it" a bit to see if I can get the top weight shifted to force it to stay up but it would not budge. The masts are now a bit bent and I've since backed out and put my original setup back for now.

Please help! Does anyone use an effective and safe 50' mast and if so, how have you mounted it?
Is there some better things to use as a mast that won't bend like that while not being too heavy?
A tower is NOT an option - I hate heights and my neighbors wouldn't go for it. Plus I need to be able to bring the mast down if I need to add an antenna or service it. I have seen someone post here about cementing two posts on either side of a mast, then putting two sets of threaded rod through all of them. The idea was that removing one rod would allow you to lower it. But, what type of mast should be used for that?

Let me know what you think.

Thank you!

Brian

 

[digitalanalog]

If you are going to raise a single pole mast, you HAVE to use Guy wires, or your mast mill twist and shout....

At 50' you need at least 2 guy rings (guy points) to keep everything straight, maybe try one anchor point at 25' and the 2nd one at 45', as well the base of the mast should be anchored in Cement or at least a tilt base anchored into cement..

Single mast poles will not stand up on their own.........
You have to anchor them with guy wires.

Also, if at all possible, when raising the mast pipe, try lifting it from as high as possible, raising from the ground will cause it to bend.

A rope tied to the top or near the top and pulled upward will stop it from bending when your trying to stand it up, once it's upright, get the guy wires anchored.

Good luck, and be careful, you can get hurt when a tall mast falls on you as well, you can Destroy an antenna when it hits the ground at even half the height your talking about .

 

[WouffHong]

Mast Mess

Ok guys. I need the experts to help me out here.
Today I attempted to get my Tram UHF antenna higher to help my reception of NYPD frequencies in NY.
I'm currently at about 35' high on top of the house. Since going higher than that would get a bit dangerous
on the roof, I decided to do a "ground-up" solution.
I bought some of those awful Radio Shack 10' masts thinking I can connect them together, along with a 5' section I have, to achieve the 45' I wanted.
I used a nearby trees thick branches to lean the mast as I gradually raised it and slid it upwards as I added sections. Well, to my utter disgust, the masts began bending the higher I raised it It created a near 90 degree angle. I tried my best to "rock it" a bit to see if I can get the top weight shifted to force it to stay up but it would not budge. The masts are now a bit bent and I've since backed out and put my original setup back for now.

Please help! Does anyone use an effective and safe 50' mast and if so, how have you mounted it?
Is there some better things to use as a mast that won't bend like that while not being too heavy?
A tower is NOT an option - I hate heights and my neighbors wouldn't go for it. Plus I need to be able to bring the mast down if I need to add an antenna or service it. I have seen someone post here about cementing two posts on either side of a mast, then putting two sets of threaded rod through all of them. The idea was that removing one rod would allow you to lower it. But, what type of mast should be used for that?

Let me know what you think.

Thank you!

Brian

I have 3 50' Telescoping steel masts that I boughta a large Ace Hardware. They already have the rings to attach guys and clamp-locks a and safety pins to insert in the stack whee they overlap. You may have to go to a Rural ACE to find them (I'm in N. GA), as I expect urban stores won't have them.

they weren't terrible expensive and easy to put up.

I worked the bottom section down into the ground a foot or so (Concrete woul be better) AND drove an 8' ground rod alongside each one, wiring it to the mast with copper wire and clamps.

Now, I have a porch about 12 feet or so above ground and secured them to it with a standard R/S standoff "eaves" mount and used one guy set at the 25' level.

They arer pretty sturdy and one supports a long-range TV antenna, and 50-1000 mhz Discone, a Rotor and a weather station head. been through 65 MPH gusts and all did well over last 3 years..

Picture attached - Contrast with background horrible :-(
Tom
W4NOV

 

[James04TJ]

I agree with the above posts... Attempting to use a light duty radio shack style mast to create a 50' structure is asking for disaster. Rohn makes telescoping masts (like the one pictured above) in varieties from 20-50' at very reasonable prices (~$150 for 50') that are designed to be guyed. Base Antenna Mounts, Pipe & Antenna Mast | TESSCO 800 472 7373

Radio Shack masts are just way too light duty for most applications.

 

[NJ-Radio]

Would I extend the telescoping mast all the way out on the ground then lift it straight up?
This one wouldn't bend as easily as the Radio Shack poles?

I'm going to see if I can take them back and get my $80 back and apply it to this mast.
BTW: What kind of wire do you get for guying? I seen some spools of braided type wire at Lowes.
I don't know what gauge it is but what gauge is recommended.

Thanks

Brian

 

[WouffHong]

Would I extend the telescoping mast all the way out on the ground then lift it straight up?
This one wouldn't bend as easily as the Radio Shack poles?

I'm going to see if I can take them back and get my $80 back and apply it to this mast.
BTW: What kind of wire do you get for guying? I seen some spools of braided type wire at Lowes.
I don't know what gauge it is but what gauge is recommended.

Thanks

Brian

Just my Method: - I extended the thinner top section first and locked it in place (the Channelmaster ones I got for around 55 bux have a pin to insert as well as the clamp) and stabilized everything by using the Stand-off w-shaped support lag- bolted into the porch framework, then went onto the porch and raised and clamped as I went. I used fairly heavy Galvanized twisted wire for guying.

It CAN get a bit hairy doing it with more than one antenna on it and a second hand helps! - They don't bend easily - they are galvanized steel and not light. I'll see if I can verify the manufacturere and any model#.. Just looked on-line:

I should have bought a few more! - the 30-footer is now almost twice what I paid for the 40-footers (i was wrong - mine are 40's - 50' was not needed and too heavy for an old guy.

Here is a tiny url for Ace (from http://qsy.us ham interface):

http://tinyurl.com/cnqv2w

73

Tom

Tom

 

[wlmr]

Tried and true method from years back when I worked for a TV repair company. This also worked on the roof of houses with the bottom of the mast in a tripod stand. The standard masts were either 20' (2 section) or 30' (3 section) push-ups (pipe with a just smaller one slipped inside and an even smaller inside that) with guy wire rings just below the top of each section.

Attach all your guy wires to the support rings, leaving them long enough for when everything's extended.

Put your antenna on now or after the following step.

Stand the non-extended pipe up and secure the lowest section's guy wires.

Using an extension ladder secured just below the guy wires (OSHA may have issues with this part) push up the middle of the 3 sections, fasten the guy wires securely, leave them fastened, and lower the center section back down.

Push up the uppermost section, don't worry about it's guy wires just yet, and push the center section back up until the center guy wires are again solid.

Secure the top section's guy wires.

To work on the antennas, again get to the top of the lowest section and retract the middle and top sections, leaving all the guy wires alone. If you noted where the sections clamped together, you can usually raise the whole thing back up so all the guy wires are tight again.

All of this was best done with little to no wind.

 

[kb0nly]

Sounds like its time for some concrete work to put up a tower!

 

[specman]

Agreed. A self-supporting tower is so much better than a 50' guyed mast setup. Not sure what the neighbors are concered about in this case.. best have a chat with them and assure them what will be mounted on there. If they are concered about a tower crashing into thier yard you can get insurance to cover that.

A tower would look better than a bunch of guy wires too.

 

[blueangel-eric]

Tried and true method from years back when I worked for a TV repair company. This also worked on the roof of houses with the bottom of the mast in a tripod stand. The standard masts were either 20' (2 section) or 30' (3 section) push-ups (pipe with a just smaller one slipped inside and an even smaller inside that) with guy wire rings just below the top of each section.

Attach all your guy wires to the support rings, leaving them long enough for when everything's extended.

Put your antenna on now or after the following step.

Stand the non-extended pipe up and secure the lowest section's guy wires.

Using an extension ladder secured just below the guy wires (OSHA may have issues with this part) push up the middle of the 3 sections, fasten the guy wires securely, leave them fastened, and lower the center section back down.

Push up the uppermost section, don't worry about it's guy wires just yet, and push the center section back up until the center guy wires are again solid.

Secure the top section's guy wires.

To work on the antennas, again get to the top of the lowest section and retract the middle and top sections, leaving all the guy wires alone. If you noted where the sections clamped together, you can usually raise the whole thing back up so all the guy wires are tight again.

All of this was best done with little to no wind.

I use turnbuckles and give slack before lowering so when raising back up I can get the holes on the mast to line back up and then tighten the turnbuckles back up to tighten the guy wires. and btw its best to install the mast and guys without the antennas so it's easier without the weight and worry of it crashing and breaking. then put the antennas on for the final raise. I guess it depends on how your doing it.

 

[kb0nly]

With the cost of used towers these days the biggest investment is the darn concrete!! But if done right a push up mast can be used to, not saying it can't, but i wouldn't trust one for a permanent install here.

First tower i got was a BX-40 for $100, the next one was a BX-56 for $50 (got lucky on that one)

 

[NJ-Radio]

As I said, a tower is out of the question. Wife won't like seeing it, neighbors won't either.
Plus, I hate heights so I'd never climb it.
I'll stick to the mast solution for now.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Brian

 

[kb0nly]

Tell the wife the tower isn't as dangerous as a cobbled together mast that could fall on the neighbors roof, or worse!

Besides that, since your neighbors seem to be a-holes, if you need a permit for a tower in your area chances are you better go talk to them about a 50ft mast, if your neighbors will complain about a tower they might also complain about a mast that tall! And if your required to have a permit for it and don't then your legally liable.

Here i have two things going for me, one there is no city ordinance concerning towers or other antenna support structures, the only thing i had to adhere to is the 200ft FAA requirement being that we have a local airstrip. As for neighbors, renters to one side, and older couples to the other that don't mind as they like to watch the birds that perch on the beams... lol

I guess i have a pretty tolerable neighborhood.

 

[rvictor]

And if your required to have a permit for it and don't then your legally liable.

Even if you have a permit, you may be liable if your tower causes harm to someone or their property. Wouldn't be a bad idea to check with your insurance agent to make sure you are covered for such things.

Dick

 

[JoeyC]

Unless that 15' gain is getting you above nearby powerlines, is it even worth it?

 

[NJ-Radio]

Unless that 15' gain is getting you above nearby powerlines, is it even worth it?

Good question. I'm not really sure.
I built my own yagi this week and I actually had a nice improvement in signals. I may just play
around with tweaking it and perhaps may disregard the mast idea.
I really don't even know what kind of improvement I would have had anyways and it's a big hassle.



Brian