Something better than a Maxscan 1000?

[Redneck0410]

OK, so I purchased a Maxrad Maxscan 1000 a few weeks ago and I am not quite pleased with the reception results, so I'm thinking about retiring that stick until I purchase a Ham rig. You can see my setup here: 2000 Blazer What I would like to know is this: What NMO antennas are on the market today that are not the "unity gain" we hear so much about? I know mounting location is everything, and I am eventually planning on drilling holes in the roof, but I'm trying to scout locations for it.

[popnokick]

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Austin Spectra, but is 0 dBd.
DPD Productions Dual Band Mobile is 5.5 dBd on UHF and 2.4 dBd on VHF.

[Redneck0410]

Originally Posted by Redneck0410

OK, so I purchased a Maxrad Maxscan 1000 a few weeks ago and I am not quite pleased with the reception results, so I'm thinking about retiring that stick until I purchase a Ham rig. You can see my setup here: 2000 Blazer What I would like to know is this: What NMO antennas are on the market today that are not the "unity gain" we hear so much about? I know mounting location is everything, and I am eventually planning on drilling holes in the roof, but I'm trying to scout locations for it.

I was looking more for a tri-band antenna, as I have some 800 mHz comms I want to catch. The MaxScan does good for that, but the VHF/UHF distant comms I thought I would catch with this antenna do not come in at all. But I do like the look of the DPD antenna. I think there was someone here a while back mentioned something about a somewhat tall tri-band antenna (like 36 inch or something like that)

[popnokick]

Read this thread on RR:
Larson Tri-Band vs. Scan-Force Mobile Antenna

[prcguy]

The Larsen Tri-band is similar performance on VHF/UHF/800 as the MAXSCAN1000, not much difference in the public service bands. About the only other choice in a currently made triband is the Austin Spectra and I have not compared that directaly to a Larsen or MAXSCAN. The Austin would be more useful if you needed VHF lo band which is what its longer whip is for.
prcguy

Originally Posted by Redneck0410

I was looking more for a tri-band antenna, as I have some 800 mHz comms I want to catch. The MaxScan does good for that, but the VHF/UHF distant comms I thought I would catch with this antenna do not come in at all. But I do like the look of the DPD antenna. I think there was someone here a while back mentioned something about a somewhat tall tri-band antenna (like 36 inch or something like that)

[Redneck0410]

OK, now another kinda silly question... I've seen posts here with people who have put antennas like this up on the roofs of their vehicles. I would do that if I had a somewhat solid guarantee that I would get better results reception-wise over where the antenna is currently mounted. Is it just a bunch of smoke-blowing or what? I'm looking to pull in signals from around 30-40 miles away, similar to the results I got from the RS mag-mount antenna. Comparing reception between the two antennas, I'm about to put the mag-mount back on the roof and the hell with discoloring my paint. I figured I'd be able to pull in signals better with the MaxScan where I have it now, but I guess not. I realize this antenna is only 16 1/2 or 17 inches tall, but is it going to make that much of a difference? I've been scanning since 1991, but this is the first time I've had an NMO antenna and have had such an issue with what I wanted to hear.

-Shawn

[mmckenna]

Multi-band antennas can be a real mixed bag, trying to make one antenna that works well for everything is pretty hard to do.
Doing a proper permanent mount on the roof of your Blazer should help, but I don't think it's going to make a huge difference.
Since you mentioned you might be getting a ham rig eventually, here is what I would suggest:
Keep the current antenna where it is since it is working for 800MHz.
Install a permanent mount in the center of the Blazer roof and get a Larsen NMO-270. That is an antenna that is designed to cover the 2 meter and 70cm amateur radio bands. It's a 5/8th's wave on VHF and some multiple on UHF.
combine the two antennas together and that should improve your VHF and UHF reception considerably, while keeping the 800MHz reception that you already have. Bonus is that a 5/8 wave VHF antenna is 1/4wave on the VHF low band, so if you have any low band services you want to monitor, you'll gain that.

Since you are going to need an antenna for the amateur radio, you won't really be loosing any money. You could even try putting the tribander on the rooftop to see how it does. If it works we enough up there, you can put the dual band antenna on the fender.

The lower you go in frequency, the less efficient those tri-band antennas are. Not surprising you are seeing less than acceptable performance having it mounted down low like that. The cabin of the vehicle is blocking, and the lopsided ground plane of the fender mount is likely screwing it up.

Just my 2 cents worth of input.

[Redneck0410]

Originally Posted by mmckenna

Multi-band antennas can be a real mixed bag, trying to make one antenna that works well for everything is pretty hard to do.
Doing a proper permanent mount on the roof of your Blazer should help, but I don't think it's going to make a huge difference.
Since you mentioned you might be getting a ham rig eventually, here is what I would suggest:
Keep the current antenna where it is since it is working for 800MHz.
Install a permanent mount in the center of the Blazer roof and get a Larsen NMO-270. That is an antenna that is designed to cover the 2 meter and 70cm amateur radio bands. It's a 5/8th's wave on VHF and some multiple on UHF.
combine the two antennas together and that should improve your VHF and UHF reception considerably, while keeping the 800MHz reception that you already have. Bonus is that a 5/8 wave VHF antenna is 1/4wave on the VHF low band, so if you have any low band services you want to monitor, you'll gain that.

Since you are going to need an antenna for the amateur radio, you won't really be loosing any money. You could even try putting the tribander on the rooftop to see how it does. If it works we enough up there, you can put the dual band antenna on the fender.

The lower you go in frequency, the less efficient those tri-band antennas are. Not surprising you are seeing less than acceptable performance having it mounted down low like that. The cabin of the vehicle is blocking, and the lopsided ground plane of the fender mount is likely screwing it up.

Just my 2 cents worth of input.

I was still going to use the MaxScan anyway, I just didn't know if I would gain any advantage with a short antenna like that being on the roof, whether I'd gain any traffic. I was planning on putting an antenna on the roof again anyway, it's just too dang cold in my neck of the woods to undertake a job like that just yet. I was debating on doing something like that anyway. Thanks for your input, buddy, I appreciate it. I just needed another vote of confidence, I guess. If anyone else would like to chime in, have at it.

[prcguy]

Going from a Larsen Tri-band or MAXSCAN1000 to a commercial version of the big Larsen VHF/UHF dual band will not be a night and day difference. Whatever you now receive on VHF/UHF with some hiss will have a little less hiss. Signals that were very extremely and not readable may become barely readable but you will not pull in something clearly readable that was not there before.

If you decide on the big Larsen dual band make sure you get the commercial version if this is for scanner use. The amateur version is fairly narrow band and will loose some performance outside the amateur bands.
prcguy

[Redneck0410]

Originally Posted by prcguy

Going from a Larsen Tri-band or MAXSCAN1000 to a commercial version of the big Larsen VHF/UHF dual band will not be a night and day difference. Whatever you now receive on VHF/UHF with some hiss will have a little less hiss. Signals that were very extremely and not readable may become barely readable but you will not pull in something clearly readable that was not there before.

If you decide on the big Larsen dual band make sure you get the commercial version if this is for scanner use. The amateur version is fairly narrow band and will loose some performance outside the amateur bands.
prcguy

Is that pretty much going to be the case no matter what kind of stick I put on this mount? My ultimate goal is to recieve signals within roughly 30-40 miles while mobile. I was thinking of possibly going with a Motorola commercial antenna if that would work somewhat better. I don't really have a UHF signal I would need to pick up anywhere in this area, so one tuned for specifically VHF would serve me better, I feel.

[benbenrf]

Originally Posted by Redneck0410

OK, so I purchased a Maxrad Maxscan 1000 a few weeks ago and I am not quite pleased with the reception results, so I'm thinking about retiring that stick until I purchase a Ham rig. You can see my setup here: 2000 Blazer What I would like to know is this: What NMO antennas are on the market today that are not the "unity gain" we hear so much about? I know mounting location is everything, and I am eventually planning on drilling holes in the roof, but I'm trying to scout locations for it.

Redneck

No location is not everything – so please do not go experimenting drilling holes all over your Blazer!

The only time you likely to enjoy any noticeble performance difference by way of antenna position in a receive only setup on a car is when the car is static – and you have had the opportunity to park it facing different directions and make comparisons. And even then improvements experienced will be best in most cases when reception conditions were boarder line in any case.

In short: differences in performance related to antenna positioning on a car, is both measurably and in reality, quite small while static, and nothing while a car is moving.

Why?
Because geographical features (e.g. hills, land profile, tall trees) and man-made structures (mainly buildings – especially in urban areas, less so in rural areas) together combine to exert a far greater influence on the radiation pattern of transmissions than any vehicle body can ever exert. Added to this is the fact that car orientation is a criteria you have little control over whilemoving or confined to a laid out parking space!

Such tests have been performed many times – I was party to many such tests in the early part of my career using military vehicles such as APC’s and tanks (large volumes of dense, thick metal). Results often showed differences to be measurable with lab instruments for sure, but in reality those measurements were minimal most of the time and constantly changing environmental influences almost always undone any measurable benefit.

The best place for your antenna is going to be a combination of what is practical for your vehicle and what is going to be aesthetically pleasing for you and easy to live with.

[mmckenna]

Originally Posted by Redneck0410

Is that pretty much going to be the case no matter what kind of stick I put on this mount? My ultimate goal is to recieve signals within roughly 30-40 miles while mobile. I was thinking of possibly going with a Motorola commercial antenna if that would work somewhat better. I don't really have a UHF signal I would need to pick up anywhere in this area, so one tuned for specifically VHF would serve me better, I feel.

The Motorola antennas are made by someone else, so there is nothing magical about them. If VHF is all you need, then look for just a VHF antenna. There are "wide band" versions out there that would work for both 2 meter work and cover well up into the VHF band. Truth is, unless you plan on transmitting, just a normal 2 meter antenna would be fine, there isn't going to be a noticeable difference. Again, once you install an NMO mount, swapping antennas out is easy. I've done that, and honestly I cannot tell the difference between a 5/8 wave antenna up there and a 1/4 wave. For simplicity I just use the basic 1/4 wave antennas for VHF and UHF.

[Redneck0410]

Originally Posted by mmckenna

The Motorola antennas are made by someone else, so there is nothing magical about them. If VHF is all you need, then look for just a VHF antenna. There are "wide band" versions out there that would work for both 2 meter work and cover well up into the VHF band. Truth is, unless you plan on transmitting, just a normal 2 meter antenna would be fine, there isn't going to be a noticeable difference. Again, once you install an NMO mount, swapping antennas out is easy. I've done that, and honestly I cannot tell the difference between a 5/8 wave antenna up there and a 1/4 wave. For simplicity I just use the basic 1/4 wave antennas for VHF and UHF.

If I can match or slightly surpass the performance of the RS mag mount with an NMO antenna, I'd be satisfied.

[prcguy]

At VHF and UHF there is virtually no difference between a mag mount and permanent mount NMO or at least I have never measured any difference. With that said you can use a mag mount and borrow or try other antennas like a 5/8 Larsen on VHF or a long Collinear for UHF and see how they work for you.

If you find the high gain single band antennas will not bring in the signals you want then there will be no multiband scanner or commercial antenna that will serve your purpose. If you were local to me I would be happy to loan out some antennas for testing but I see your across the country from me.
prcguy

Originally Posted by Redneck0410

Is that pretty much going to be the case no matter what kind of stick I put on this mount? My ultimate goal is to recieve signals within roughly 30-40 miles while mobile. I was thinking of possibly going with a Motorola commercial antenna if that would work somewhat better. I don't really have a UHF signal I would need to pick up anywhere in this area, so one tuned for specifically VHF would serve me better, I feel.

[Redneck0410]

Originally Posted by prcguy

At VHF and UHF there is virtually no difference between a mag mount and permanent mount NMO or at least I have never measured any difference. With that said you can use a mag mount and borrow or try other antennas like a 5/8 Larsen on VHF or a long Collinear for UHF and see how they work for you.

If you find the high gain single band antennas will not bring in the signals you want then there will be no multiband scanner or commercial antenna that will serve your purpose. If you were local to me I would be happy to loan out some antennas for testing but I see your across the country from me.
prcguy

Considering the mounting location difference plus the overall antenna height difference, the reception is definitely suffering. I'll acquire a high-gain antenna and report back the results. Thanks for the offer.

-Shawn