apartment, low profile, the landlord

[Curfew]

What is the best antenna to receive in fringe areas, lets say 60 miles out, and highly directional to where the sides and back of the antenna are nulled out.

Im talking the best as far as proof of performance. And now the difficult thing- is there any professionally made that can be placed outdoors so the landlord wouldn't even know?

I remember years ago someone made a wide band vertical which looked just like a stove pipe, but that is a vertical. Im wondering about directivity and rejection, but low profile in the form of a corner reflector or beam, but the appearance does not look as one.

Any ideas to get this fellow happy and not concerned? Thanks.

 

[ka3jjz]

I kinda doubt such a beast exists. You'd need fairly decent height to get 60 miles out (you'd have to be more specific about frequency and terrain), and that would, no doubt be seen by a landlord. Indoors there'd be so many reflections from any nearby conductive surfaces that any real directionality could be severely compromised. And Yagis can be a real eye catcher - but they too have some response off the sides. In addition, we haven't even considered how to get the feedline into the building. Highly doubtful. 73s Mike

 

[firetaz834]

If you live in an apartment, where is your apartment located at (floor wise?) and if your on an upper floor, do you have a balcony. You mith be able to mount something that can be taken down relatively easily.

Myself, when I used to live in a apartment I attached a mag mount on the metal railing outside my apartment, but I lived in the metro area and could get away with a 1/4 wave and left it up all the time and never hear a word. But, there are a couple ideas for you.

 

[ka3jjz]

But a mag mount would not be particularly directional, as the original poster had wanted. And 60 mile range is really doubtful unless it's high up and had no real obstructions. 73s Mike

 

[iMONITOR]

What are you using the antenna for, scanner, ham radio? What bands/frequency coverage?

 

[N1BHH]

Scanning antenna, mag mount on the air conditioner will do the trick, something that blends in will work. Ham bands, same kind of deal for VHF and UHF, for the HF bands hook up the gutters, if they are aluminum, through a tuner and you'll do fine, if not just run a wire around the perimeter of the building in a stealthy manner and use a tuner to load it. The possibilities are endless.

 

[trooperdude]

What is the best antenna to receive in fringe areas, lets say 60 miles out, and highly directional to where the sides and back of the antenna are nulled out.

Im talking the best as far as proof of performance. And now the difficult thing- is there any professionally made that can be placed outdoors so the landlord wouldn't even know?

I remember years ago someone made a wide band vertical which looked just like a stove pipe, but that is a vertical. Im wondering about directivity and rejection, but low profile in the form of a corner reflector or beam, but the appearance does not look as one.

Any ideas to get this fellow happy and not concerned? Thanks.

Depending on terrain, it's unlikely you will get 60 miles.. unless you're at the top of a high-rise apartment.

Yagi length depends on what frequency you are trying to listen to.

If you have a balcony there are many ways to camouflage an antenna.. even a yagi if the frequency is high enough. ie: not VHF or low band

I helped a friend with one installation. High rise apt. with a balcony. 800mhz yagi camouflaged in one of those large patio umbrella things. Fed with RG6U Quad shield (short run) through the door with a RG6u flat coax jumper.

Worked like a charm. But the height is what really made the difference.

 

[rfradioconsult]

Look at a non-conventional antenna with good gain, directivity and somewhat broadbanded. It in early days of TV a Rhombic design worked very well, I suggest reading up on Rhombic antennas.

 

[prcguy]

Why not buy your landlord a cheap scanner and outside antenna and get him hooked on the hobby? Before you know it he will be pouring a foundation for your tower and helping run the coax.
prcguy

 

[zz0468]

Unfortunately, your requirements are all conflicting with each other. A directional antenna is going to be relatively large and hard to hide. An antenna that will hear anything 60 miles out is going to be tall, and hard to hide. An antenna that is easy to hide is going to be relatively small, so there will be sacrifices in gain and directivity.

Kinda reminds me of a saying we used to use when management would beat us up about some project or another that wasn't going their way... "You can get something done right, done cheap, or done quickly. Pick two." Same idea, it ain't gonna be directional AND high enough to hear a long way AND hidden from the landlord.

 

[zz0468]

Look at a non-conventional antenna with good gain, directivity and somewhat broadbanded. It in early days of TV a Rhombic design worked very well, I suggest reading up on Rhombic antennas.

He didn't get back to us to specify what he's listening to, but the typical rhombic antenna is going to be horizontally polarized. I rather doubt one could create a vertically polarized rhombic without violating the stealth requirement.

 

[Curfew]

The bands are your scanner VHF and UHF's. I know UHF is a bigger challenge at distance. The idea of Rhombics came up. Whew, it has been a long time since i figured out the parameters with these. I made a rhombic one time, tilted between horizontal and vertically- the thing was actually HUGE and then matched to the receiver.

Talk about hear a mouse whisper a hundred and a half miles or so away. That thing was wicked. It was not a permanent antenna, field expedient type and expendable made out of the old television flat UHF double antenna wire.

Thanks for the inputs on any manufacturers which have one already made and ideas. All i can do is keep experimenting. I may simply throw the old Diamond D-707 up in a tree and say to hell wih it, i receive what i can and that's it. This is hard to accept though, especially if i can come up with a more highly effective method.

Back to the fine balance of short runs of low loss and height, a very difficult thing to master because terrain dictates the situation. Im sort of in a slight hole.

 

[trooperdude]

Rhombic on the roof of the apartment ?

Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[rfradioconsult]

He didn't get back to us to specify what he's listening to, but the typical rhombic antenna is going to be horizontally polarized. I rather doubt one could create a vertically polarized rhombic without violating the stealth requirement.

A 800 MHz rhombic would be physically small and could be made of small dowels to form a diamond with the calculated angles and mounted vertically. More stealthy than a yagi or any other conventional design.

 

[37wes37]

A few Ideas...

You could place a magnetic mount antenna on a metal fire extinguisher box. If you're on a balcony and the box is mounted too far up for the typical magnetic mount VHF or UHF antenna of your choice, you could attach the magnetic mount device that Grove offers to the box and attach your indoor Diamond or Watson antenna to it.

The air conditioner thought is a good one, though in any case the 60 miles is going to be difficult to overcome.

Let us know how it works out!

 

[nycrich]

Try an active antenna from a reputable company, Eg Dressler. I have the same problems, and currently use a Dressler ARA-500 ($90 used on Ebay). Range from 25-500Mhz. I painted it green and stuck it just above my potted plants outside. Good reception on VHF Aero 175-250miles, Mil 75 miles , 800Mhz.

 

[SkipSanders]

Im sort of in a slight hole.
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Which completely destroys any possibility of long range. No amount of fooling with antennas will 'fix' 'Not in line of sight'. VHF/UHF radio waves do not travel through the ground well. You probably will be lucky to get 5 miles, much less 60.

100 db gain applied to zero signal is still zero signal.

As an example, to get 30 miles reliable range, your antenna would need to be 900 feet above ground level (plus any hole you're in!). It might get out ot 60 miles on good occasions. More range comes from the other end's antenna height, of course, and for most of us, almost all the 'range' we get is due to the high altitude of the transmitting antenna on a mountaintop or high building somewhere.

 

[prcguy]

There is the vertical half rhombic, which could be disguised as guy wires holding up a mast for 800MHz. My experience with several Dressler VHF/UHF active antennas is very poor. A cheap Discone is almost as good.
prcguy

 

[gcgrotz]

There's also a thing called a Ventenna, made to go on a plumbing vent pipe on the roof, it can be painted and has an option for internal feed. They make a scanner version, or VHF and/or UHF ham ranges.

 

[chgomonitor]

Directional Indoor Antenna

http://www.grove-ent.com/ANT4.html

Haven't tried it myself.