There is a grass fire in smith county with multiple VFDs working it. Usually this is not a problem as far as Comms go but since some of the VFDs are from other counties that don't use 800 there is a problem. To be able to communicate with all departments command has to use 3 radios. I thought the "Trade the HT" days were over when they went to this new fancy P25 system they built out... Guess not.
East Texas Interoperability Issues
- Thread starter ke5fgc
- Start date
- Status
3 words...
Texas.
Fire.
3.
We're having grass fires as well, and everyone is doing fine on good ol' VHF analog, even though there are some agencies from LCRA (900 MHz EDACS) they still have a VHF radio for interop.
This type of stuff will never change, uninformed choices are made, without consulting other local agencies. I also bet these guys haven't had an MCI (or similar) exercise in awhile to ferret these problems out before the headaches happen in the field.
Texas.
Fire.
3.
We're having grass fires as well, and everyone is doing fine on good ol' VHF analog, even though there are some agencies from LCRA (900 MHz EDACS) they still have a VHF radio for interop.
This type of stuff will never change, uninformed choices are made, without consulting other local agencies. I also bet these guys haven't had an MCI (or similar) exercise in awhile to ferret these problems out before the headaches happen in the field.
n5ims
Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
- Messages
- 3,993
Assuming you're on the TxWARN system (Texas Wide Area Radio Network (TxWARN) Project 25 Trunking System, Various, Texas - Scanner Frequencies) the RR database shows some talkgroups that may be for patches to TX Fire 1 and TX Fire 2.
If these are still active, you may want to check with your area Emergency Management Agency to verify if this is correct (and if not, what talkgroups may provide that functionality) as well as how to activate/deactivate the patches when necessary.
If these are still active, you may want to check with your area Emergency Management Agency to verify if this is correct (and if not, what talkgroups may provide that functionality) as well as how to activate/deactivate the patches when necessary.
... and if they weren't near a TxWARN site, then what?
Trunking doesn't guarantee interoperability. Simplex would work fine for most fire scenes.
Trunking doesn't guarantee interoperability. Simplex would work fine for most fire scenes.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 690
The only way you will see this change is if someone with some vision in a leadership position pushes through a law or mandate requiring every single piece of fire apparatus in the state to have a VHF radio. California did it; their "official" fire department band is VHF and even big cities like LA (800 conventional in the city, UHF T-band in the county) and San Diego (800 trunked) have VHF capability in the trucks. They've been dealing with massive wildfires for decades over there and their communications plans (notice that I said plans and not systems) reflect it. Of course that will never happen here, if for no other reason than the "who's going to pay for it?" howls.
many of the smith county departments are now getting VHF radios put in their trucks. Some departments also have VHF HTs but the problem is that they don't carry then on the truck, someone always has to go back to the station to get them.
Also the TGs labeled TX Fire 1,2 and so on are not patched to their VHF counterparts.
Another problem I noticed is that people always want to operate on "their channel".
Also the TGs labeled TX Fire 1,2 and so on are not patched to their VHF counterparts.
Another problem I noticed is that people always want to operate on "their channel".
jburrell
Member
VHF vs 800
Here in Southern Colorado and Northern New Mexico in the mountains, the 800 mHz P25 is not used as much in a fire situation. Most Fire departments use VHF and mostly the FERN channels when working a fire.
This is true for the air tankers and medivac helicopters as well as the fire units.
Here in Southern Colorado and Northern New Mexico in the mountains, the 800 mHz P25 is not used as much in a fire situation. Most Fire departments use VHF and mostly the FERN channels when working a fire.
This is true for the air tankers and medivac helicopters as well as the fire units.
Got to hear the same problem in Hunt County last night & this morning. Armed suspect that shot his ex-wife in Greenville, but was found in the county. Greenville PD on digital w/ some officers using CODE to scramble their transmissions, Hunt Co So on analog, & DPS 101 trying to coordinate. Some SO officers trying to monitor Greenville, but couldn't when it was scrambled. You would think everyone would get on the same page. Don't know why TX Law 1 or 2 wasn't utilitized. Good thing is suspect caught w/o further incident.
TxWarn
Just curious to why agnecies other than the ones that were already on the TxWarn P25 trunked system have not utilized the existing infrastructure that exist for communications? The system basically has a P25 trunked site in each of the East Texas Counties with 7 just in Smith County.
Just curious to why agnecies other than the ones that were already on the TxWarn P25 trunked system have not utilized the existing infrastructure that exist for communications? The system basically has a P25 trunked site in each of the East Texas Counties with 7 just in Smith County.
Nah, East Texas it would be Texas Fire-1. But this is an interesting deal and not uncommon.
I've been scanning the fires lately and have heard a lot of things that the COG's have also been hearing which is piss poor radio interoperability. In the perfect world patches to Texas Fire would all be working fine. but I've heard many calls where they are not. Can't answer why this is either other than (Well for my area) Fire chiefs who are still in denial that 700, digital or the new technology are A: being mandated and B: work and instances just like this gives them their ammo to fight the system. So nobody goes out and purchases the new equipment thus can't talk to each other during an emergency.
"I also bet these guys haven't had an MCI (or similar) exercise in awhile to ferret these problems out before the headaches happen in the field."
Most of them have probably not even had the FEMA ICS online classes. Just another problem with volunteer fire in Texas. I'm sure over the Winter (after we get either Rain or Snow finally) much of the problems with communications will be looked at, assessed and hopefully fixed.
Max, those letters for "money" need to be bigger. That's always a big issue, especially for the small VFD's. Some of them are teetering on the edge of financial disaster, after running constantly, chasing the multiple grass fires with the steadily worsening drought. Not to mention the normal structure fires & MVC's that they always get.
Believe me, I COMPLTELY understand this stuff isnt cheap. However, I also belive that when it comes to first responders communications, there is NOTHING more important and money shouldnt be the issue. Every County, City, VFD in the Nation is having financial issues but most still find ways to come up with the money. In my experience if agnecies get together and express the absolute need to thier chiefs and city managements that Money always manages to come from somewhere.
That's the truth. A buddy of mine is helping an agency get all their radios up to date. Wow. A few guys know a little bit, but it's mostly because they own CBs. They're having to spend out of their own pocket for radios. These guys are looking at Chinese trash because that's all they can afford. We're offering to at least pick up commercial secondhand gear from ham fests (you know the old boxes of Motos). Some departments can hardly afford gas to keep fighting these fires. The drier it gets, the more fires they have AND the less local water (stock tanks, rivers, creeks) these services have, so they end up driving further to get it.
No Doubt! I was Captain on Ladonia fire for a short time (Now that I'm off I sleep MUCH better) to get approved on a TFS 90/10 grant we were looking at 16 months just for approval and another 6 to 9 months for delivery of a single brush truck. And then there is the Politics .....
Boat - Man your lucky to have a few guys who knew some things, My very first Fire call we had to argue about going to Texas Fire-1 and then when I got everyone moved over to it the cussing began .... Many volunteers are good guys (Well they all are really) but few of them have a clue on how to use a radio and then what to do with it. Radio procedure and protocol go out the window with Structure gear in 101 degree heat! Most of these guys get on scene and all they care about is pulling hose and putting down water.
Like I said, when this drought and Fire season end there will be Great discussion about radio systems, the lack of training to use radio and the lack of money for radio as well as the problems with radio interoperability.
Till then it makes for some FUN Scanning!!!
Easier said then done! There is A LOT of red tape in those grants. The Fire Departments have to meet certain criteria such as three years of book keeping and other things which change with Fire Administrations (And that changes quite frequently)
The Helping Hands grant is a good one with little criteria but it only covers immediate bunker gear concerns and air packs. as far as buying radios we really relay on the County Emergency managers and COG's because most fire chiefs take one look at the process and say "Forget it"!
The other problem is that most of us are struggling with Fire Apparatus and just keeping it running and able to make a call. If I have a VFD with 20 guys on it and 4 trucks, and the mobile radios work in the trucks and all 20 guys have a pager, then were good to go! Most of us don't have time to deal with two thousand dollar portable radios because of the other financial strains were dealing with. The radio really becomes less a priority and the grant process eventually becomes a drowned wish.
Like I said, I completely understand! I really honestly feel bad for all first responders who cant afford to buy the equipment that is needed to make your job as safe as possible. I see how much money is wasted in other areas of counties and City's knowing that there are so many agencies who are out on the front lines with bandaids and duck tape holding there equipment together. I have seen a few counties who were generous enough to buy the VFD's one mobile and two portables for each apparatus when making thier puchase of new radios systems. Judges like that as it gives them great PR for doing that. thanks for the comments.
- Status
