Rogers SO Upgrading to Mototrbo

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tulsascan

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The mototrbo radios by motorola are digital capable. They also do GPS meaning dispatch will know the loction of the radio could be a plus for law enforcment.
 

peterjmag

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Yeah we already knew that and its nice but he was using humor more on the lines of interoperability or lack there of.
 

Freqed

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Was the news story about a Radio switch or something else? Searching the KOTV archives doesn't bring up anything about Rogers County Radio changes.
 

peterjmag

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It was about a man who got lost traveling from Michigan to Texas down 169. A deputy made contact with the man and helped him on his way. The news story was aired at 10 and was not on the web site. The deputy was caring an obvious and in plain view Mototrbo talkie.
 

peterjmag

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Yep that's it Ray good job finding the clip! I saw that and then the change in the license. They may be analog now but they may be going trbo soon. I have heard from many from that area that they have complained about multiple dead spots in Roger County because of an old out dated radio system. So it could be their next step.
 

2112

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Yeah we already knew that and its nice but he was using humor more on the lines of interoperability or lack there of.

Lack of interoperability you say? With who? Let's see who's playing where in Rogers County...

Claremore is on a UHF LTR system, was previously on VHF analog.
Catoosa is on OKWIN, previously on VHF analog.
Rogers State... VHF analog.
Chelsea... VHF analog.
Inola... VHF analog.
Talala... VHF analog.
Verdigris... VHF analog.
Rural FD's... VHF analog.

So... Rogers SO has some TRBO channels. Apparently it is not well-known that MOTOTRBO radios are capable of analog operation. So Rogers SO should be able to talk to all those VHF analog agencies listed. And, if Claremore & Catoosa were smart enough to keep VHF radios in their cars when they do dumb things like move to uncommon bands, Rogers SO could talk to them on VHF analog too.

SO ONCE AGAIN

Scanner hobbyists have conjured up the idea that a new, unscannable technology is not interoperable. This happens alot as a means to criminalize the new technology in the eyes of their fellow hobbyists. Looking back, it was this way when the new Oklahoma City Harris TRS popped up, it was that way back in the day when trunking came to town, it was that way with some narrowbanding, and it will happen again and again. But rest assured it is certainly not this way with MOTOTRBO. Let's see how.

MOTOTRBO is Digital Mobile Radio (DMR)

DMR is an OPEN DIGITAL RADIO STANDARD. Did you know that several other manufacturers also make DMR radios, most of which are directly compatible with each other? Motorola... Vertex... Hytera... Tait... and so on. Harris also makes a DMR radio... branded Momentum. Don't know yet if it's interoperable with the others yet, but give it time.

AND DID YOU KNOW

MOTOTRBO can operate in what they call "mixed mode", where the repeater will allow analog users in to communicate with the digital subscribers? And... since public-safety agencies started adopting MOTOTRBO rapidly, there is a firmware upgrade in the works that will eventually allow P25 Phase 2 operation? Seems even more interoperable to me.

AND NOW

Let's compare the implementation of MOTOTRBO with that of P25 in Oklahoma. Pulling from the RR database for Oklahoma and from what I understand about some agencies' plans: I see 2 agencies statewide operating a P25 system on VHF. But there are almost 50 agencies operating on MOTOTRBO VHF. Now, is it more interoperable to purchase a radio system that you can use to talk to 2 agencies on, or is it more interoperable to purchase a radio system that you can talk to many of your neighbors on?

AND OF COURSE

Everybody forgets that interoperability in the real public-safety world really is not an oft-used construct. Typically when agencies need to talk to each other, it is done through dispatchers over the phone. And when the big emergency comes, everybody does as they have practiced. Without changing the subject, yes it would be nice to change that, but reality is what it is.

EVEN SO

There are interoperability channels and communications plans in-place so that I don't have to worry about talking direct on some other agency's primary channel. Remember the channels that have been set aside for interoperability: all the statewides & V-TAC's & federals and so on. That's what they're for. Not so I have to track hundreds of other communities' systems.

AND DON'T FORGET

Cost is a significant barrier to interoperability. Scanner hobbyists who buy an occasional $300-500 radio don't have to get councilmen and commissioners to approve funds to purchase expensive radio systems within the constraints of tight budgets and crummy economies. When MOTOTRBO radios that offer the features they do come in at a fraction of comparable P25 and or OKWIN radios, it's pretty easy to see which way the vote's gonna slide.

YES I KNOW

That certain people cling to the notion that the manufacturers never intended DMR for public-safety use. Back when they put the cost models together I'm sure they didn't. Two-way manufacturers have always created "designed for public safety" tiers of products aimed at the deeper pockets of government. But when agencies thumbed their noses at high-cost P25 and even more expensive systems, it sure didn't take long for that intention to get switched around.

ONE LAST THING

I've actually used MOTOTRBO radios. They are excellent analog radios, and they are good on digital too. I can talk to all my MOTOTRBO and analog neighbors. And they can talk to me. If they want to... but only as long as they're on VHF. :-D If you're worried about being able to hear MOTOTRBO agencies, do what mam1081 suggested in another MOTOTRBO-hate thread and buy yourself one. You might be surprised.
 

peterjmag

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2112
Thanks for the lecture and review. I could care less what Rogers SO does. I am all for what helps the agency do a better job. If they feel Trbo or other DMR type digital is a solution then great. Rogers SO has been complaining about dead spots for years and if this solves the problem for officer safety then that's great. I live in East Tulsa and I could complain about TPD and encrytption or BA's OpenSky etc. but I could care less. Like your quote says it is just a hobby and it's not my life like you may be implying. I am just reporting what I see and observe. Also I too have used trbo and I agree of all the DMR line it sounds the best as well as analog. I am aware that if programed right they can have all the interop that is needed. My point was in a county and area full of different bands and systems that you mentioned above it just adds more confusion and frustation amongst the users unless he or she is properly trained in more than just keying up a radio.
 

N5TWB

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@2112 & PJ -

Enjoyed reading both posts and was enlightened by both. Pointing up a common thread in both are the observations about training for environments that are not normal operations. It will only be when one of those environments becomes reality that the training and systems performance can be fully evaluated. Exercises can have value as can simulations that are conducted on a what-if/thinking through it basis in order to develop processes that can be integrated into training and operations. Simplicity always wins over complexity in these situations so every system has to be evaluated for that. Radio systems are not immune.

It's not the protocol (P25, DMR, encryption, analog vs. trunking, whatever), it's the process and people that have to make it work when it counts. 2112 makes a good point on the VTAC etc. interop plans being available for effective communication in the face of varying deployed protocols.

The military has a saying about the best laid battle plans do not survive the first five minutes of the actual battle and everybody defaults to training, especially at the small unit level.
 

PaulSuperman

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Lack of interoperability you say? With who? Let's see who's playing where in Rogers County...

Claremore is on a UHF LTR system, was previously on VHF analog.
Catoosa is on OKWIN, previously on VHF analog.
Rogers State... VHF analog.
Chelsea... VHF analog.
Inola... VHF analog.
Talala... VHF analog.
Verdigris... VHF analog.
Rural FD's... VHF analog.

So... Rogers SO has some TRBO channels. Apparently it is not well-known that MOTOTRBO radios are capable of analog operation. So Rogers SO should be able to talk to all those VHF analog agencies listed. And, if Claremore & Catoosa were smart enough to keep VHF radios in their cars when they do dumb things like move to uncommon bands, Rogers SO could talk to them on VHF analog too.

SO ONCE AGAIN

Scanner hobbyists have conjured up the idea that a new, unscannable technology is not interoperable. This happens alot as a means to criminalize the new technology in the eyes of their fellow hobbyists. Looking back, it was this way when the new Oklahoma City Harris TRS popped up, it was that way back in the day when trunking came to town, it was that way with some narrowbanding, and it will happen again and again. But rest assured it is certainly not this way with MOTOTRBO. Let's see how.

MOTOTRBO is Digital Mobile Radio (DMR)

DMR is an OPEN DIGITAL RADIO STANDARD. Did you know that several other manufacturers also make DMR radios, most of which are directly compatible with each other? Motorola... Vertex... Hytera... Tait... and so on. Harris also makes a DMR radio... branded Momentum. Don't know yet if it's interoperable with the others yet, but give it time.

AND DID YOU KNOW

MOTOTRBO can operate in what they call "mixed mode", where the repeater will allow analog users in to communicate with the digital subscribers? And... since public-safety agencies started adopting MOTOTRBO rapidly, there is a firmware upgrade in the works that will eventually allow P25 Phase 2 operation? Seems even more interoperable to me.

AND NOW

Let's compare the implementation of MOTOTRBO with that of P25 in Oklahoma. Pulling from the RR database for Oklahoma and from what I understand about some agencies' plans: I see 2 agencies statewide operating a P25 system on VHF. But there are almost 50 agencies operating on MOTOTRBO VHF. Now, is it more interoperable to purchase a radio system that you can use to talk to 2 agencies on, or is it more interoperable to purchase a radio system that you can talk to many of your neighbors on?

AND OF COURSE

Everybody forgets that interoperability in the real public-safety world really is not an oft-used construct. Typically when agencies need to talk to each other, it is done through dispatchers over the phone. And when the big emergency comes, everybody does as they have practiced. Without changing the subject, yes it would be nice to change that, but reality is what it is.

EVEN SO

There are interoperability channels and communications plans in-place so that I don't have to worry about talking direct on some other agency's primary channel. Remember the channels that have been set aside for interoperability: all the statewides & V-TAC's & federals and so on. That's what they're for. Not so I have to track hundreds of other communities' systems.

AND DON'T FORGET

Cost is a significant barrier to interoperability. Scanner hobbyists who buy an occasional $300-500 radio don't have to get councilmen and commissioners to approve funds to purchase expensive radio systems within the constraints of tight budgets and crummy economies. When MOTOTRBO radios that offer the features they do come in at a fraction of comparable P25 and or OKWIN radios, it's pretty easy to see which way the vote's gonna slide.

YES I KNOW

That certain people cling to the notion that the manufacturers never intended DMR for public-safety use. Back when they put the cost models together I'm sure they didn't. Two-way manufacturers have always created "designed for public safety" tiers of products aimed at the deeper pockets of government. But when agencies thumbed their noses at high-cost P25 and even more expensive systems, it sure didn't take long for that intention to get switched around.

ONE LAST THING

I've actually used MOTOTRBO radios. They are excellent analog radios, and they are good on digital too. I can talk to all my MOTOTRBO and analog neighbors. And they can talk to me. If they want to... but only as long as they're on VHF. :-D If you're worried about being able to hear MOTOTRBO agencies, do what mam1081 suggested in another MOTOTRBO-hate thread and buy yourself one. You might be surprised.

I would have to say I agree with you 2112. But Kenwood's NEXEDGE is better digitally in sound.
 

firemark

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Claremore's LTR system has a channel which the PD can talk to the county through a cross band repeater but i am not sure about what the FD uses.

Catoosa PD switched to OKWIN years ago but still maintains a VHF radio in their vehicles. The FD has also switched but still maintains its VHF presence via a cross band repeater which gives them interoperability between the Rural FDs.

Firemark
 

zerg901

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All of these folks presumably could scan or access the sheriffs channel in the past. Now they cant. Might be a huge loss of interops.

Rogers State... VHF analog.
Chelsea... VHF analog.
Inola... VHF analog.
Talala... VHF analog.
Verdigris... VHF analog.
Rural FD's... VHF analog.

-------------------------------------

Maybe the "non sheriff units" could try to access the Sheriff channel using analog, but how would they ever know if they are butting into the middle of a conversation or not? (seeing as how the Sheriff units will be operating in digital mode, and everyone else will be in analog mode).

Maybe the Sheriff could broadcast their hottest calls on a mutual aid channel. Or in analog mode on the Sheriff channel.
 

JLutz91

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FYI

Chelsea Pd is on OKWIN and maintains analog VHF both in car and in dispatch.

Chelsea Fire is using analog VHF but has OKWIN radios in all units.
 

WX5JCH

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What do the troopers do that still have 44.70 Low band radios and nothing else? Got many out here, they go out and buy a VHF radio so they can talk to dispatch. No interop here. dispatchers still call each other on the phone. computers in the car was a dream, now I got a left over 75' telephone pole in my back yard that I can' t even use, city property. One loaner OHP car still has a RCA tube radio, has to warm up to be used. I-40 corridor don't count anyway.Ranting, hoping someone in the legislature reads this and completes the OKWIN system STATEWIDE before spending any money on upgrading existing towers, My tax money is wasted...
 

marshall58

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Northern Rogers County, OK
Chelsea Police is on OKWIN (analog) and maintains analog VHF for backup.

Chelsea Fire is analog VHF but has OKWIN radios , but don't use OKWIN because they don't have handheld radios.

RCSO is still analog at this time. They have plans to go digital.

Most Rural FD's are vhf analog except for Limestone FD uses OKWIN.
 

JLutz91

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Chelsea Police is on OKWIN (analog) and maintains analog VHF for backup.

Chelsea Fire is analog VHF but has OKWIN radios , but don't use OKWIN because they don't have handheld radios.


Chelsea Fire has 800mhz handheld radios, they were on loan to the police department at one time.
 

SCPD

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Is Rogers Sheriff confirmed using Mototrbo fulltime? Also, I see that Rogers Sheriff has a patch on Claremores LTR analog system... is this still patched to 154.77 digital mototrbo repeater? maybe I could monitor them like that? thanks
 
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