Fort Collins Police to go encrypted

Fort Collins Police Services is encrypting all routine radio traffic Tuesday so the public can’t listen in with smartphone apps or scanners.

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/2...lice-silence-public-radio-broadcast-next-week

oh geez, when will it ever end????/

I think maybe its time to silence the feeds, with more cities moving to encryption, then maybe the feeds should be cut. Ever since the advent of smartphones apps that to listen to radio stations or watch videos on them, then maybe it should be time to turn off the feeds.PHX PD here in AZ has closed off their all TAC channels which most were open except a couple or so which were already encrypted, i agree that TAC,SWAT,NARCS, GANG TASKFORCE, VICE and DETECTIVE talk groups should be encrypted. I agree on THAT!. If we want to keep listening, then lets close these feeds to keep our hobby going. The Chief says that right there, quoted from the Coloradoan

"Fort Collins Police Services is encrypting all routine radio traffic Tuesday so the public can’t listen in with SMARTPHONE APPS or scanners."

Look at whats the common denominator here SMARTPHONE APPS (Listening to LIVE FEEDS) not the scanners, but it is the scanners that provide the live feed to the smartphone,Look at Garfield and Fremont counties did, I bet it was because someone told the chief of police and the firechief or a city council member heard/was shown to them that their radio traffic could be heard on their smartphone. Here in Phoenix and in surrounding cities, most of the channels are encrypted.even with a delay turned on police will slowly shut the public out, even though we pay their salary and fund their communications with a sales/property tax. We should just be lucky now to listen to the few talk groups we have now as the day will come,I dont like it, but with live feeds I think, ALL TRAFFIC WILL BE SILENCED.. It will come.......




Now I will get off my soapbox and sit back and watch the fireworks again as this always comes up......and munch on some popcorn. Good day!...

73's

I don't usually listen to FCPD but like to tune them in once in a while.

But now...ONE news organization with a poor record for accuracy will be our supposed watchdog for police misbehavior. I wonder what conditions are imposed on the Coloradoan for their acceptance of the radio? They will only hear what the police allow them to hear, and I can't help but wonder what subset of that the Coloradoan will decide the rest of us get to know about.

Don't get me wrong, some police activity should be confidential. But ALL of it? No. There is no reasonable justification for that.

I contacted my city council person when this first came to light months ago. They didn't even offer the courtesy of a reply.

I think the addition of a 30 min delay would help. For us listeners the listening experience is satisfied and the police may---be happier with us. They always said with the scanner they can't catch the criminal in
the act. But in reality they don't catch them at the scene very often.

A thirty minute delay should be mandatory unless it is an official feed and that feed allows "real-time" access. Everyone is going encrypted, and if you look at the Louisiana network, there is a direct correlation. Feed goes up, encryption turns on.

For the sake of scanner listeners everywhere, PLEASE turn on a thirty minute delay since we all know you will never turn it off because of the monetary value.

The more money you make, the less money you will make in the future, if you care. What good will scanners be and premium subscribers need to access your frequency database if everything is encrypted to start with? None.

Well said - The database and feeds will become totally worthless with 100% encryption.

... I love all the comments so far! Its clearly showing that so many comments for years, the poll that is running and the results also show a majority of concern about feeds,apps. Its not just 911 concerned about them, its us well!

Unfortunately, disabling the feeds or turning on a delay won't guarantee the police will stop encrypting traffic. I have no problem with them encrypting hot calls but it's silly to do ALL of the,m.

Thread already about it here... started on 3-28-2013 >> http://forums.radioreference.com/colorado-radio-discussion-forum/263691-fcpd-encypt-next-week.html

If anybody truly believes that the police are encrypting because of the reasons they say they're encrypting, I've got a bridge to sell them.

Yeah I know, it's fun to make Lindsay look like the bad guy and blame everything on radio reference but adding a 30 minute delay or pulling all the feeds altogether would not stop them from encrypting. This has all just been a convenient excuse.

If anyone needs any concrete evidence, just look at the agencies who were the first ones to encrypt. And you tell me if you don't see a pattern.

I see a pattern on AWIN and LWIN. Russellville, Arkansas, clearly stated they were encrypting because criminals can listen in real time with any smartphone. It was also stated it was unfortunate they were also locking their scanner listeners out, but they had no choice with the audio being available real time on the internet.

Go to the Louisiana page and read about "we just started this feed three months ago and now it's encrypted." "We turned this (feed) on last month and now they went to encryption." "Our city is discussing buying encryption because of 5-0 Radio."

Little Rock, Arkansas, PD is getting all new APX series and guess what one of the council members asked? "Can these radios keep the criminals from listening on their iPhone?" Little Rock Encryption when they switch over. CHECK.

I don't know of any hobby listener that cares if SWAT, NARC, and CID are encrypted. I don't personally mind if they also have an encrypted talkgroup for robberies and B&E, but regular calls need to be clear.

Are you really that oblivious to encryption?

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it:

It's not just the streaming that bothers agencies, it is the UNAUTHORIZED RECORDING AND DISTRIBUTION OF RECORDINGS of their radio traffic, especially sensitive incidents- that ENCOURAGES encryption.

You can downplay it all you want, the continued streaming and RECORDING by third parties, especially for profit, without consent WILL RESULT in continued rollout of system wide encryption on new municipal radio systems,

Is it an "excuse" some are using, maybe, maybe not. But to deny the impact these streams and recordings are having on the state of our hobby, well- you either think DENIAL is a river in Egypt or you live under a rock.

Either way, this is a growing trend and isn't going to slow down, especially since software based encryption such as Motorola's ADP is a "throw in" on many sales.

ADP is as weak as 40-bit WEP, and it serves ONE purpose and serves it well:

To stop scanners from working and stop streaming.

So stream on and make Solutions stock price go up!

Even if it is the recording that bothers them, they're not using that as the reason. They're using the highly visible streaming as the excuse.

Without ubiquitous access, police agencies would either have to claim that they don't want recordings out there which sounds bad from a PR/transparency perspective, or try to make the case that the small percentage of scanner users are causing some kind of problem. Neither one would seem to gather the votes for the money the police always want to spend on a new system with encryption.

But thanks to free, public streaming, any one who doesn't understand the issue or ease of access can be asked to just download the app to their smartphone and listen away. Too bad streams aren't available only to subscribers...

MTS2000des said:

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it:

It's not just the streaming that bothers agencies, it is the UNAUTHORIZED RECORDING AND DISTRIBUTION OF RECORDINGS of their radio traffic, especially sensitive incidents- that ENCOURAGES encryption.

Click to expand...

Bingo. We have a winner.

Ronaldski said:

... I love all the comments so far! Its clearly showing that so many comments for years, the poll that is running and the results also show a majority of concern about feeds,apps. Its not just 911 concerned about them, its us well!

Click to expand...

It's hard to understand what you are trying to get across, but if I follow right you are saying that this agency will not encrypt if the scanner feed is removed from here. Since individual opinions are worthless in this case, could you contact the chief to get confirmation? That would lead to giving you some credibility on this topic, because so far you've lacked that...

blantonl said:

Fort Collins Police Services is encrypting all routine radio traffic Tuesday so the public can’t listen in with smartphone apps or scanners.

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/2...lice-silence-public-radio-broadcast-next-week

Click to expand...

Well as feed provider since 2008 of the notorious "Larimer County Sheriff" feed which, as an added bonus included FCPD, Loveland PD, and Boyd Lake talk groups, I can only say it was a great ride and I thank everyone for listening. Especially the "Balloon Boy Family" which holds the record for causing most listeners ever on the feed!

It is regrettable that Chief Hutto's sphincter has become so tight but he is a cop after all. The feed did not broadcast clearances or tac channels and contained a delay so I don't believe that any officers were ever in "danger" or that any crooks were able to get a jump on "Johnny Law". It must also be emphasized that most agencies, including our dear FCPD (yes the same FCPD that sent an innocent Tim Masters to prison for 10 years---get a copy..Drawn to Injustice...a great read) have had the ability to encrypt sensitive traffic at their choosing for a while now.

In my opinion Hutto's argument for encryption is weak at best. The opportunity for them to shut out public scrutiny and allow them to run rough-shod is certainly strengthened. I had occasion to listen to one of the California feeds recently as police were in the process of chasing down the ex-LA cop who had an issue with police and had killed several. No doubt a notorious individual that needed to be brought to justice, listening to the live feed revealed that this man was assassinated with incendiary devices by law enforcement!! He never lived to get his day in court which is vital to a truly democratic society regardless of how evil one may be!! Is this the type of incident Hutto is concerned about? We can only speculate.

Kudos to Radio Shack for their PRO-96. That little sucker has been constantly on since April 2008!! I look forward to its re-purpose and maybe a little savings on my utility bill.

73

dougw65 said:

... listening to the live feed revealed that this man was assassinated with incendiary devices by law enforcement!!

73

Click to expand...

There is absolutely no evidence of that. One cannot make such a determination based only on limited snippets of radio traffic.

Farscan said:

I think the addition of a 30 min delay would help. For us listeners the listening experience is satisfied and the police may---be happier with us. They always said with the scanner they can't catch the criminal in
the act. But in reality they don't catch them at the scene very often.

Click to expand...

With respect, a 30 min delay would make a scanner about useless, what would be the point?

jhsands said:

Little Rock, Arkansas, PD is getting all new APX series and guess what one of the council members asked? "Can these radios keep the criminals from listening on their iPhone?" Little Rock Encryption when they switch over. CHECK.

Click to expand...

Here in Michigan, I was told that any large Project 25 radio and/or system order from Motorola, now comes with ADP encryption automatically loaded into all of the radios at no extra cost. Not only does this thwart casual eavesdropping, and online streaming, but also locks the agencies or system users into using ADP proprietary encryption. This was a marketing move by Motorola.

Moreover, the sales reps from Motorola say that it's much easier, and quicker to use their "free" encryption method, than to pass legislation banning the online streaming of law enforcement communications. However, it locks out other vendors like EFJohnson, Harris, Kenwood, and Thales Liberty from bidding on their radio systems, since they can't offer a proprietary encryption standard copyrighted by Motorola. In addition, there are federal standards for encryption on radio systems.

73's

Ron

Thunderbolt said:

Here in Michigan, I was told that any large Project 25 radio and/or system order from Motorola, now comes with ADP encryption automatically loaded into all of the radios at no extra cost. Not only does this thwart casual eavesdropping, and online streaming, but also locks the agencies or system users into using ADP proprietary encryption. This was a marketing move by Motorola.

Moreover, the sales reps from Motorola say that it's much easier, and quicker to use their "free" encryption method, than to pass legislation banning the online streaming of law enforcement communications. However, it locks out other vendors like EFJohnson, Harris, Kenwood, and Thales Liberty from bidding on their radio systems, since they can't offer a proprietary encryption standard copyrighted by Motorola. In addition, there are federal standards for encryption on radio systems.

73's

Ron

Click to expand...

And this is the ONLY solid argument against proprietary encryption that holds any water, not the "I have a right to listen" mantra that usually gets thrown out there.

of course, if AES is ordered, all vendors support this- though the cost is considerably higher as it is hardware based encryption. But at least it is cross-vendor supported and an EFJ 51SL can talk to an APX all day long running AES-256, but you aren't gonna get that thrown in for free like ADP.