HP-1 bug?: Can't receive TxWARN P25 system

wm8s · Apr 3, 2013

Hours-old HP-1. All updates applied.

The HP-1 is sitting next to an old BCD996T programmed on the same system. The HP-1 has all but one site (Pearland TX) locked out, which is the only site programmed into the 996, and which I can receive S9+ on a chewing-gum wrapper.

When the HP-1 receives something, it works GREAT. But the HP-1 doesn't receive much. This site is very busy, as confirmed by virtually constant traffic received on the 996.

Here's the weird thing:

If I go: System>Analyze>Trunked System Analyzer>Use Current System>Pearland>System Load Reception Status, I get 100% quality. Then, if I hit Listen from there, the HP-1 receives that system great. But as soon as it leaves this system and comes back to it, it's deaf again and won't do anything, until I got through those shenanigans again.

Obviously a bug? If I can't get this fixed, it's going to have to go back. Has anyone else seen this?

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

It does not have any where near the sensitivity of the 996. But that sounds like a really strong system.
The only things I can think of are:
1. Set it to ID SEARCH
2. Enable all service types,
3. Expand the range to 30 miles

Then report back.

Jay911 · Apr 3, 2013

Pearland's site data is only good for 10 miles around the point indicated in this link:
Pearland Site Details (Texas Wide Area Radio Network (TxWARN) Project 25)

What "Range" setting do you have on the HP1? If it's 0 miles, that means the location the HP1 is set to (i.e. your zip code) must lie within that circle. If your "range" setting is 20 miles, that means you could be 20 miles away from the outer edge of that circle and the HP will still have that site activated. If you're further away, the site won't be active. You'd still be able to analyze it from the advanced menu because IIRC you can choose to analyze any site regardless of its location.

Another possibility is that the talkgroup group that you want to listen to is beyond your location. Same kind of rules apply.

Try this: Copy TxWARN P25 into a favorites list (in Sentinel, navigate down into USA, Texas, then any county, say Brazoria, then right-click on the TxWARN P25 system and "Append to Favorites"). Make a new favorites list for it. Next, go Edit>Profile on the Sentinel main screen, click on the Favorites Lists tab, and for that new favorites list you made which only contains TxWARN P25, set "Monitor" to On, "Download" to On, and "Location" to OFF. Go back out of the Profile Editor (just close the window) and then Write to HomePatrol under the HomePatrol menu (of course, it has to be connected in order to write to it). When it's done writing, disconnect it and let it boot up. If you start receiving TxWARN, with the favorites list name on the top bar in small grey text, then it means your location settings are the problem (because having "Location" set to OFF in the favorites list config will tell it to ignore GPS/zipcode/etc).

If that is the case, then you will have to figure out how to set your location to a place within the circle on the link I shared. You can try increasing your Range value (you can actually try that first if you like, if you're not already set to a high value), or you can make up a location that's close to the site and enter that manually. There's other options, too - if you look for UPMan's posts, he frequently posts a link to the wiki (Uniden's wiki, I think) for a document titled "Location, Location, Location" which may help you.

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

Excellent advice! I did not think of turning off location in the system.

wm8s · Apr 3, 2013

Thanks for the ideas.

I already had Search enabled; doesn't it change anything either way (on or off).

And I had also already copied the system to a Favorite list with Monitor:On Download:On Location:No and was scanning that; again, however, it doesn't change anything either way.

It is definitely scanning the Pearland site (I'm well within 10 miles of it, which is the Range I'm using). As I noted, if I go thru the Analyze business, then press Listen, the scanner works great and picks up all talkgroups off the Pearland tower just fine. But if I let it scan (or manually move it) away from the P25 system and then back to it, it will not decode any more talkgroups and sits there deaf until I do the Analyze:Listen trick.

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

Did you set your range to 30 miles?

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

And did you enable all service types?

wm8s · Apr 3, 2013

No, but see above. I edited my post to add that the system has Location:No already. And if it weren't ever scanning the Pearland tower due to a location problem, then it would never work. But it does work just fine after I do an Analyze then leave Analyze and go back to regular listening. Just fine until it scans away from and then back onto the system, that is.

wm8s · Apr 3, 2013

Oops. We're out of sync

If it were a channel type problem, then it would not ever work. But it does work fine after the Analyze:Listen trick. And in any event, I tried, and it didn't change anything.

...R

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

Jay911 said:
Pearland's site data is only good for 10 miles around the point indicated in this link:
Pearland Site Details (Texas Wide Area Radio Network (TxWARN) Project 25)

What "Range" setting do you have on the HP1? If it's 0 miles, that means the location the HP1 is set to (i.e. your zip code) must lie within that circle. If your "range" setting is 20 miles, that means you could be 20 miles away from the outer edge of that circle and the HP will still have that site activated. If you're further away, the site won't be active. You'd still be able to analyze it from the advanced menu because IIRC you can choose to analyze any site regardless of its location.

Another possibility is that the talkgroup group that you want to listen to is beyond your location. Same kind of rules apply.

Try this: Copy TxWARN P25 into a favorites list (in Sentinel, navigate down into USA, Texas, then any county, say Brazoria, then right-click on the TxWARN P25 system and "Append to Favorites"). Make a new favorites list for it. Next, go Edit>Profile on the Sentinel main screen, click on the Favorites Lists tab, and for that new favorites list you made which only contains TxWARN P25, set "Monitor" to On, "Download" to On, and "Location" to OFF. Go back out of the Profile Editor (just close the window) and then Write to HomePatrol under the HomePatrol menu (of course, it has to be connected in order to write to it). When it's done writing, disconnect it and let it boot up. If you start receiving TxWARN, with the favorites list name on the top bar in small grey text, then it means your location settings are the problem (because having "Location" set to OFF in the favorites list config will tell it to ignore GPS/zipcode/etc).

If that is the case, then you will have to figure out how to set your location to a place within the circle on the link I shared. You can try increasing your Range value (you can actually try that first if you like, if you're not already set to a high value), or you can make up a location that's close to the site and enter that manually. There's other options, too - if you look for UPMan's posts, he frequently posts a link to the wiki (Uniden's wiki, I think) for a document titled "Location, Location, Location" which may help you.

In Sentinel, I can only set location to Circle or Rectangle. There is no "off" setting, unless you are saying to set it to ZERO?
And there is no "download" setting. Please elaborate on how to do this.

wm8s · Apr 3, 2013

The Location he's talking about is not the one in Edit>Edit Favorites List, but the one in Edit>Edit Profile>Favorites Lists tab.

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

NOW I see it!
OK, so what do the MONITOR and DOWNLOAD settings do exactly?

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

OK, I RTFM and the only one I don't find is the "monitor" setting in profiles. What does that one do?

Jay911 · Apr 3, 2013

Problems receiving a single system are rarely indicative of a defective unit that requires service - it's more of a programming issue.

Are you *certain* that the location you're set to (whether you entered your zipcode or entered a manual lat/long) is within 10 miles of the location for the Pearland site in the link I put at the top of my last post?
As mentioned, the only other thing I can think of off the top of my head, at this particular moment, is that the talkgroups you're monitoring are set with improper location data in the RRDB. Changing your settings to search all talkgroups, or ignore location data, should bypass both problems, though.

One last thing that could be at issue is that the talkgroups you're trying to monitor are either using TDMA modulation or any kind of encryption. The HomePatrol can't pick those up. Check for an 'E' or a 'T' in the TxWARN RRDB entry.

I just put in a zip code of 77047 in my HP1, using the full database, and TxWARN P25 is in there. The sites which are shown as automatically unlocked close to zip 77047 include Pearland.

With your scanner configured the way you have it now, in the full database, tap on the upper bar and use "Next" to find TxWARN P25 (it's spelled out in full on mine). Then tap "Advanced" on that menu, then "Site Information". If "Active Site:" is empty, that's OK, because you navigated here without letting the scanner listen to anything yet. Sites in red on the screen are automatically locked out due to being outside your range. Sites in orange are manually locked out by you. Do you have at least one site showing black (unlocked)?

If none of this helps, I'd suggest doing a full reset of the SD card with HomePatrol>Clear User Data, then see how it behaves "out of the box".

scosgt said:
In Sentinel, I can only set location to Circle or Rectangle. There is no "off" setting, unless you are saying to set it to ZERO?
And there is no "download" setting. Please elaborate on how to do this.

You're looking at the system inside the favorites list. Instead, go to the main Sentinel screen, click the Edit menu, and click Edit Profile, then click the Favorites Lists tab.

Jay911 · Apr 3, 2013

scosgt said:
OK, I RTFM and the only one I don't find is the "monitor" setting in profiles. What does that one do?

Whether or not you've got that favorites file activated. You can have them all downloaded to the scanner, and choose to activate/monitor only one, or a number of them, or all.

scosgt · Apr 3, 2013

Jay911 said:
Whether or not you've got that favorites file activated. You can have them all downloaded to the scanner, and choose to activate/monitor only one, or a number of them, or all.

Sorry, that answer REALLY confused me! I have all my favorites in my scanner.
If I turn MONITOR off and then download into the scanner, what will be different?

wm8s · Apr 3, 2013

I very much appreciate all the suggestions, but they all ignore one unavoidable fact: The scanner works great after I have Analyzed the system. After I do that, and hit Listen, the scanner works as advertised. It receives the Pearland site, the only one I have not Avoided (FYI, I Avoided the other sites within 10 miles of me in an effort to diagnose this problem; unAvoiding them does not fix the problem, either). The signal strength is five bars. The (non-Phase 2) talkgroups all come in just great. Everything works great. If there was anything wrong with the RRDB database, the location, the range, the talkgroups, the Service Types, etc., i.e., with ANY of my setup, then the scanner would never work. But it works great AFTER I go into and then right back out of Analyze.

Until I scan away from (or manually Next away from) the P25 system and scan (or Prev) back onto it. Then it's back to deaf. Forever. Until I Analyze the system again. Etc.

Thanks, but I can't imagine that there can possibly be something wrong with my setup and it would work great only after I Analyze the system. Then it forgets that once it moves on, and is back to deaf when it returns to the P25 system.

Does "Clear user data" reset me back to out of the box? I'm willing to try that, as I haven't customized much.

...R

wm8s · Apr 3, 2013

Clear User Data did not help

I did Clear User Data. I went through the entire Wizard setup over again. All I did was punch in my Zip Code.

TxWARN Analog works great.

TxWARN P25 behaves exactly as before: If I Next or scan to it, it is deaf. If I Analyze the system, however, and then go back to Listen, it works great. Until I Next or scan away from and then back to it, when it's back to deaf. I don't believe I could possibly have a setup problem.

Time to return this unit.

Jay911 · Apr 3, 2013

scosgt said:
Sorry, that answer REALLY confused me! I have all my favorites in my scanner.
If I turn MONITOR off and then download into the scanner, what will be different?

You will not be monitoring any favorites lists, but they will be there in the scanner if you choose to turn Monitor on for any or all of them.

I currently have favorites lists "Local", "Random" (for junk I might be messing with, trying to get CTCSS tones on, etc), "Ontario", "Newfoundland", "Texas", and "Florida" favorites lists in my scanner. The only ones with Monitor set to On are Local and Random. In May, when I come down to Austin to watch V8 Supercars at Circuit of the Americas, I'll turn Local OFF and Texas ON, and probably either put the V8 teams and officials in Random, or add another favorites list and turn it on too.

wm8s said:
Until I scan away from (or manually Next away from) the P25 system and scan (or Prev) back onto it. Then it's back to deaf. Forever. Until I Analyze the system again. Etc.

I understand that, and that's what I'm saying too. Analyze works on a different set of rules than normal scanning, and you've gone into that mode. I'm not sure why it makes things work, but doesn't work at other times.

Stab in the dark: Are all the frequencies on the Pearland site (in the HP1 DB) being used for P25 operation? I've seen a few systems lately where agencies are reusing their old systems' frequencies for their P25 sites. This is a long shot but I wonder if something "before" the P25 control channel (presuming the P25 CC isn't frequency #1 in the list) is a non-P25 signal and the radio is automatically skipping the site when it hears that. I forget if you can lock out individual frequencies per site - I don't think you can - but you can certainly remove them in the favorites list version. Take everything out of Pearland except the known good P25 CC and reupload that favorites list into the scanner (or, delete them manually from the Edit System menu in the scanner itself).

wm8s said:
Does "Clear user data" reset me back to out of the box? I'm willing to try that, as I haven't customized much.

My understanding (I haven't used the feature before) is yes, it will reset the radio to factory settings.

I'm at my wits' end at this point, and sorry I haven't been able to help so far. Luckily there's a huge number of Texans on the board and UPMan is also bound to see the thread soon enough. Best of luck.

Jay911 · Apr 3, 2013

wm8s said:
TxWARN P25 behaves exactly as before: If I Next or scan to it, it is deaf. If I Analyze the system, however, and then go back to Listen, it works great. Until I Next or scan away from and then back to it, when it's back to deaf. I don't believe I could possibly have a setup problem.

Time to return this unit.

Are there other P25 systems you can compare against? If it won't receive ANY P25 trunk systems, that could be a defect. If it's only TxWARN, either something in the programming of TxWARN (even in the RR DB) or something in the HomePatrol firmware probably needs fixing, and returning your unit won't necessarily solve the problem.

HP-1 bug?: Can't receive TxWARN P25 system

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