NOAA S.A.M.E CODES

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dwylie

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I had contacted one of the NWS staff and from what I understood was that there has not been much change in the SAME codes. I own the Pro106 scanner and I have the codes covering three counties of New Hampshire. The way it was explained to me was that if severe weather alert was to be announced it would only be if the threat was for that part of the county. When severe weather was for Cheshire county it did not sound of for Hillsborough county. I think that this is the best idea that NOAA came up with.
 

MesquiteWx

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Ever since NWS went to Storm Based warnings over the county based warnings in 2010 it can make things confusing when it was suppose to limit false alarms. So if a storm is only threatening only one county only that county will be alerted for that S.A.M.E that was programmed. Each county has it's own S.A.M.E code. Every counties S.A.M.E will start with a zero which means complete county coverage.

Now if you wanted to break down the counties by regions you can do that too so you only receive storm based alerts.

For example, my S.A.M.E. code for the entire county of Dallas is 048113. 0 meaning entire county. Now if you wanted a certain part of the county it would follow like this.

In the case of the maximum of nine subdivisions, the following assignments
would be used in the first digit:

1 = Northwest 1/9
2 = North Central 1/9
3 = Northeast 1/9
4 = West Central 1/9
5 = Central 1/9
6 = East Central 1/9
7 = Southwest 1/9
8 = South Central 1/9
9 = Southeast 1/9

For less than 9 subdivisions, the following numbering convention is
normally used depending on the desired size and/or orientation of the area
such as from Northwest to Southeast, North to South, West to East, or
Northeast to Southwest:

1 = Northwest 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate
2 = North 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate
3 = Northeast 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate
4 = West 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate
5 = Central 1/3 (or as appropriate)
6 = East 1/3 or 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate
7 = Southwest 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate
8 = South 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate
9 = Southeast 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 as appropriate

So if I wanted to only be alerted for East Central Dallas County instead of it being 048113 it would be 648113 meaning only alert for Eastern Dallas County.

Now if I wanted to be alerted for just a certain city in the county in this case Mesquite. It's in Eastern Dallas County so you would use 6 plus the last 5 digits of the FIPS code of 47892. So in the end it would be 647892 Would be the S.A.M.E code to be alerted just for one city. Now that works well for storm based warnings. But in order to be included in watches and what not you would need to have one set for the entire county.

Also you can get an alert issued but may not warrant activation of NWR.
 

rdale

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All of that reply is incorrect. The NWS is not using the county segment code, so it does not affect your weather radio. Do not enter the code.
 

MesquiteWx

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All of that reply is incorrect. The NWS is not using the county segment code, so it does not affect your weather radio. Do not enter the code.

That is incorrect too, if you wish to use alert priority you must use a SAME code. It is all documented on the NWR page from the NWS.

Your radio will pick up the nearest transmitter by default, but if you wish to use alert priority you must enter a SAME code.
 

rdale

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Please stop.

SAME codes cannot be monitored in priority mode.

And everything you said about the segmented counties is wrong.
 

MesquiteWx

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SAME codes cannot be monitored in priority mode.

What are you talking about? I think you might be confused. For one I am strictly talking about Weather Radios, not scanners. But yes, some scanners like my Pro 95 and BCD996XT will monitor alerts in priority mode. I can't speak for others but I don't think they are any different. That is the entire point of a SAME code is to alert you when a 1050 Hz warning alarm tone is sent to broadcast the alert message out of standby. Otherwise you would have to constantly keep your radio on and that defeats the entire purpose of a weather radio.

You HAVE to enter the SAME code in order to get the alert for that location out of standby. Every radio that is SAME compatible will alert you by that code. That is the whole point of the SAME code. Otherwise it is just a glorified weather radio that you have to turn on and off to hear the broadcast.

And everything you said about the segmented counties is wrong.

That is completely incorrect. NWS did away with county based warnings in 2007 as I have already stated. They are now storm based warnings but can included an entire county if the storm is large enough. Keep in mind I am saying WARNINGS not WATCHES. Watches are still issued on a county basis. So you can get storm based WARNINGS by using the FIPS code. Unless you use the SAME code then you will get the entire county and the cities which are in the path of that storm in that county.

I think you need to do some reading.

National Weather Service - Warning Decision Training Branch

Just like my alerts page on my site is produced using an XML file from the NWS from FIPS codes which is crossed reference in a fusion table to get the latlng object to draw the area for the alert. As you can see it doesn't cover the entire counties included. That data is coming straight from the NWS, not data I am producing. Alerts are issued by County name, not by city name regardless if the alert only covers one or two cities. Otherwise the alert will say for Example. "Severe Thunderstorm Warning issued for Dallas County. areas effected Mesquite, Garland, Rowlett."

Mesquite Weather - Live Local Weather For Mesquite Texas & eastern Dallas County - Texas Severe Weather Alerts

So yes, NWS does segmented county alerts and statements and have since 2007. I am not sure where you are getting your information but you might want to do a little more reading and educated yourself on this topic.

If you want if more info....

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/SAME

As it states from that link. "By using the specific code for your area, you limit when your weather radio sounds alerts to those alerts containing the SAME code you have programmed in to your receiver. "
 
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rdale

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No, I'm not confused.

SAME codes do not work on scanners when in weather priority mode. The scanner only checks for the tone.

As for the rest of your post, you are confusing about 4 different topics :) The end result is that your info on partial county SAME codes. Is wrong.
 

MesquiteWx

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SAME codes do not work on scanners when in weather priority mode. The scanner only checks for the tone.

You should really do some research before you comment. How do you think it knows WHICH alert to sound? Because you enter the SAME code.

Easier to Read Pro-93/95/2053 Scanner Manual

Especially this part "To program a weather channel as the priority channel, press WX. Select the weather channel you want to use as the priority channel then press FUNC and PRI. You will see Pri Channel blink twice on the bottom line. If you program a weather channel as the priority channel, the scanner stays in the priority channel only when the scanner detects the weather alert tone."


AND..... For the 996XT

http://marksscanners.com/996xt/996xt.shtml#weather

You have no clue what you're talking about. Saying there is no such thing as Weather Priority mode which I have just showed you MANY examples. You have no clue what and how a SAME code works. So please do some research before telling someone is wrong and back it up with some facts.

As for the rest of your post, you are confusing about 4 different topics :) The end result is that your info on partial county SAME codes. Is wrong.

Please show me some substantial information to prove me wrong if you can.

How do you think NWR and scanners are alerted for alerts?
 
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Confuzzled

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No, I'm not confused.

But apparently everyone else is. You keep saying everyone else is wrong and that you are the only person on the planet who knows anything at all, yet you consistently refuse to explain yourself or back up your statements with any documentation.
 

MesquiteWx

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No, I'm not confused.

SAME codes do not work on scanners when in weather priority mode. The scanner only checks for the tone.

This is the most contradicting statement I think I have ever read.

How do you think it knows how to alert you? WITH A SAME CODE....

Then you say "The scanner only checks for the tone." How can it do that if doesn't work in priority mode? Also how do you think it knows what tone to listen for? WITH A SAME CODE.

Go head and buy you a NWR and plug it up and do nothing. When a tornado blows through and you are wondering why your NWR didn't alert you. You will know because your radio didn't have the SAME code in to alert you. That's the whole purpose of a NWR and a SAME code for your location is to come on and alert you. Geez, get a clue!

@Confuzzled, Thank you! Least I am not the only one confused with his trolling ramblings.
 

rdale

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You are confusing the SAME code with the steady tone. When a scanner is scanning and doing weather priority, it does NOT look for the SAME code. Read the excerpts you posted again. They don't say SAME.
 

WR9A

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While storm-based warnings became the norm in 2009, that data is disseminated through almost all outlets, except NWR. While the SAME code was developed to include geographical subdivisions, that 1st-digit subdivision has not been implemented in the continental U.S. (Puerto Rico does make use of it, however.)

As a matter of fact, NWR SAME receiver decoders (all consumer models) are designed to ignore the first digit of the SAME code. In other words, if you program yours with something other than "0" as the first digit, it will still alert for the county-wide code (as this is the only geographic code being transmitted over NWR). Conversely, if you program your weather radio to alert for the entire county (which you should), it will alert if a subdivision geographic code is transmitted (which is not done). This can be found in Appendix B of the current NWR SAME specification: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/directives/sym/pd01017012curr.pdf

So, while the original spec for NWR SAME does provide for partitioning the geographical area code, it is not implemented. The warnings that are transmitted over NWR are still SAME-coded for entire jurisdictions. Yes, you will see the polygons and partial county areas on web sites and applications that get their data from the NOAA weather wire and the Internet feeds, but that information is not conveyed by SAME codes.

There seems to be confusion about SAME and the steady alarm tone that is heard on NWR. First of all, they are very different. The SAME codes are transmitted in the "header" and are 3 short bursts of ASCII digital data. These are usually followed by the Warning Alarm Tone (WAT) of 1050 Hz for 8 to 10 seconds. The SAME data is not contained in this steady alert tone.

Scanners and radios that monitor other frequencies but also have a weather "alert" feature only detect the 1050 Hz tone. This is because they do not have a separate receiver section to dedicate to monitoring NWR. So, scanners and other radios will "sample" or "scan" the weather radio frequency that has been programmed every 5-6 seconds to listen for that tone. Those types of receivers would "miss" hearing the short SAME data bursts. Some scanners and other radios can also be programmed with SAME codes, but they are only valid when the scanner or receiver is placed into a special mode to silently monitor just the NWR frequency; they cannot be used in this mode to listen to other activity. This basically turns the scanner into a very expensive weather radio. So, the SAME code is not important at all when a scanner is used to listen to police, fire, etc., while having weather alert activated. It only listens for the 1050 Hz tone, which means it will alert for any watches or warnings for any area served by the particular transmitter it is receiving.

And, by the way, most weather radios and scanners will NOT automatically tune to the right frequency. You must program it to the specific frequency of the NWR transmitter that covers your area.

While none of us are perfect or right 100% of the time, it's probably wise to read through a few threads on this forum to get a feel for who knows their stuff and who might just be playing mister know-it-all.

rdale knows his stuff (as do a lot of others on here) and is not confused. He is definitely worth listening to.
 
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rdale

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One of the suggestions early on was that the SAME code was transmitted AFTER the steady tone, just for those purposes. That way your scanner would monitor the signal when detecting the tone, but not actually alerting until the SAME code cam across.

Not sure why that wasn't implemented.
 

MesquiteWx

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You are confusing the SAME code with the steady tone.

No I am not, you are. Not once did I have say they were the same.



When a scanner is scanning and doing weather priority, it does NOT look for the SAME code.

First you said it doesn't do weather priority. Now you're saying it does so which is it? Apparently you don't read because I was initially talking about Weather Radios but some scanners can do this to. My Pro-95 will and so will my 996XT. And no it doesn't look for the SAME code, it listens for the 1050 Mhz tone based on the SAME code you enter for YOUR location. How do you think it knows where you are and what alerts to alert you for? with the SAME/FIPS codes.

Do you really not know what and how a SAME code works. Please provide me some facts and documentation to back up your argument because you have brought nothing.


Read the excerpts you posted again. They don't say SAME.

Really??? Did you not see the title heading?

"Receiving SAME Weather Alerts "

You said there was no such thing as weather priority, I just proved you wrong. Admit it. I even have video to prove this too if that is not enough for you.

Once again do you even KNOW what a SAME code is and how it's used?
 

SCPD

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RDALE, any preferences you have as a radio, portable, ac-battery, for SAME Weather Alerts. Not being a smart a--, but knowing your profession and respect your input, thanks, Steve.
 

MesquiteWx

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While storm-based warnings became the norm in 2009,


2007, not 2009. I even stated this fact with a link above.

While the SAME code was developed to include geographical subdivisions, that 1st-digit subdivision has not been implemented in the continental U.S. (Puerto Rico does make use of it, however.)

That's incorrect too... I have radios set up this way and have had them set up this way for 7+ years without any problems.

NOAA Weather Radio




As a matter of fact, NWR SAME receiver decoders (all consumer models) are designed to ignore the first digit of the SAME code. In other words, if you program yours with something other than "0" as the first digit, it will still alert for the county-wide code (as this is the only geographic code being transmitted over NWR). Conversely, if you program your weather radio to alert for the entire county (which you should), it will alert if a subdivision geographic code is transmitted (which is not done).

Not true, read the link above. I have a working example of this.

So, while the original spec for NWR SAME does provide for partitioning the geographical area code, it is not implemented. The warnings that are transmitted over NWR are still SAME-coded for entire jurisdictions. Yes, you will see the polygons and partial county areas on web sites and applications that get their data from the NOAA weather wire and the Internet feeds, but that information is not conveyed by SAME codes.

No, it's not conveyed by SAME codes, but that is not the argument here. Those are produced with FIPS6 values. You're confusing two different things. You can use FIPS codes to alert you on geographical locations, not just county.


There seems to be confusion about SAME and the steady alarm tone that is heard on NWR. First of all, they are very different. The SAME codes are transmitted in the "header" and are 3 short bursts of ASCII digital data. These are usually followed by the Warning Alarm Tone (WAT) of 1050 Hz for 8 to 10 seconds. The SAME data is not contained in this steady alert tone.

I never said it was. The SAME code contains the message. The SAME code is the code for your county. You have to enter a SAME code in order to get the alert for a certain county. It doesn't just randomly listen for a tone and alert you. Even though some models have the capability to enter multiple SAME codes (WR300).


Scanners and radios that monitor other frequencies but also have a weather "alert" feature only detect the 1050 Hz tone.

If you have programmed in a SAME code.

This is because they do not have a separate receiver section to dedicate to monitoring NWR. So, scanners and other radios will "sample" or "scan" the weather radio frequency that has been programmed every 5-6 seconds to listen for that tone. Those types of receivers would "miss" hearing the short SAME data bursts. Some scanners and other radios can also be programmed with SAME codes, but they are only valid when the scanner or receiver is placed into a special mode to silently monitor just the NWR frequency; they cannot be used in this mode to listen to other activity.

That is incorrect. As I have stated numerous times. My Pro-95 can be put into Weather Priority and so can my 996XT to listen for a tone based off a SAME code and I can still scan as normal. I have a video to demonstrate this and I have posted links to even show you how its done.


So, the SAME code is not important at all when a scanner is used to listen to police, fire, etc., while having weather alert activated. It only listens for the 1050 Hz tone, which means it will alert for any watches or warnings for any area served by the particular transmitter it is receiving.

The SAME code IS important otherwise it will NOT know to alert you for a certain area. It has also got to be put into weather priority mode to monitor for that tone.


And, by the way, most weather radios and scanners will NOT automatically tune to the right frequency. You must program it to the specific frequency of the NWR transmitter that covers your area.

No? Mine does, I don't have to program no frequency. I just have to scroll through the weather channels on both my scanners and my weather radio. Doing that alone will NOT alert you. You must program in the SAME code to receive the alerts.

While none of us are perfect or right 100% of the time, it's probably wise to read through a few threads on this forum to get a feel for who knows their stuff and who might just be playing mister know-it-all.

rdale knows his stuff (as do a lot of others on here) and is not confused. He is definitely worth listening to.

Basing someones knowledge off how long they have been a member of a forum doesn't constitute that they know their stuff more than someone else.


I know for a fact I am right about this. Do you or him own a Pro-95, 996XT or WR300? Do you 100% know how they work? I do and I have backed up my statements with links to facts and I have videos to even demonstrate this. Have you or him? Just because someone has been around longer on a forum doesn't make him know more then someone else.
 

WR9A

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I should have known not to feed the troll, since it is quite apparent you "know for a fact" you are right about everything you've mentioned, it seems. The only problem with that is, you are wrong on almost every point you try to make, as rdale pointed out once.

Actually, several of my excerpts that you quoted and say are incorrect, are from the SAME specification that I provided the link to. It really is sad you take just a little bit of knowledge and don't do proper research before making assumptions.

Yes, you do have to have the correct frequency selected to receive warnings for your area. I'll stop there. Every other counterpoint you made to my posting is also in error. I'll just leave it at that. I just don't want to see anyone reading and believing the wrong information you are spreading and putting their lives at risk.

I do, in fact, own all of the models of radios you mentioned, along with many others, and have extensive, real-world, hands-on, engineering knowledge and experience with SAME, NOAA All Hazards Radio, and a variety of radio communications systems. But I am not here to compare resumes with you, nor will I continue to pursue this nonsensical banter with you.

Oh, and I never once mentioned anything about how long someone has been a member of this forum or imply that longevity here is proportional to knowledge. Good day.
 

MesquiteWx

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I should have known not to feed the troll, since it is quite apparent you "know for a fact" you are right about everything you've mentioned, it seems.

Yes, because I have it all working in production EXACTLY like I have listed and stated and backed it all up with documentation. Apparently you do not know how your devices work.

The only problem with that is, you are wrong on almost every point you try to make, as rdale pointed out once.

You mean how he pointed out weather priority on scanners didn't exists but yet contradicted himself later and said it did? Then also states "The NWS is not using the county segment code" What do you think SAME is? It's county segmented code for a graphical location which even states that in YOUR link which I have even pointed out below. I.E. County. How is anyone suppose to believe what he is saying when he is contradicting himself.

Actually, several of my excerpts that you quoted and say are incorrect, are from the SAME specification that I provided the link to. It really is sad you take just a little bit of knowledge and don't do proper research before making assumptions..

I did read it and it states EXACTLY what I have been saying and contradicting everything rdale says. Did you read it because it states what I have been saying this WHOLE time so you must be confused.

"The main purpose of SAME is to facilitate entry of critical information into the National Emergency Alert System (EAS). The SAME six digit identification format allows listeners and EAS participants to filter NWR broadcast of warnings and emergency alerts to receive for subsequent action only messages and information for their selected geographic areas. SAME is used to activate the EAS and to activate specific SAME capable NWR receivers. This format allows listeners and EAS participants to reduce the number of perceived “false” warnings and number of unwanted notifications received in unaffected localities within a large/regional alert or warning broadcast area (warnings and alerts that are outside the receiver’s selected area(s) of concern or that do not match the “listener’s selected SAME geographic area(s), message, event and/or information type codes programmed into the receiver). An additional application of SAME includes automatic system turn “on”."

Yes, you do have to have the correct frequency selected to receive warnings for your area.

Yes, its called the SAME code!!! Are you not reading anything I have posted or your own link?

I'll stop there. Every other counterpoint you made to my posting is also in error. I'll just leave it at that. I just don't want to see anyone reading and believing the wrong information you are spreading and putting their lives at risk.

The only person who is posting wrong information is you and him and I am stating to think you and rdale are the same people looking at your post count. I have provided weather information for a city of 100,000+ for 7 years and been a trusted source for the city and everything I have listed has worked exactly as described without any problems.


I do, in fact, own all of the models of radios you mentioned,

You might want to go read your manuals again and learn how your devices work. How do you think they know where you live? By the SAME code. It will NOT alert you if you do not enter the SAME code. That is the primary purpose. The radio doesn't know where it's located. Sure you can not enter one and have it go off on any alert it detects within range of the transmitter but then you're not using your device correctly.

Oh, and I never once mentioned anything about how long someone has been a member of this forum or imply that longevity here is proportional to knowledge. Good day.

Really? You didn't say this implying that because he has been an active member longer he knows what he is talking about? Just because I haven't been I don't know what I am talking about?

"While none of us are perfect or right 100% of the time, it's probably wise to read through a few threads on this forum to get a feel for who knows their stuff and who might just be playing mister know-it-all.

rdale knows his stuff (as do a lot of others on here) and is not confused. He is definitely worth listening to.

You didn't say that?

Seems to me you are the same person as rdale.
 

rdale

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You mean how he pointed out weather priority on scanners didn't exists but yet contradicted himself later and said it did?

I never said that. I said weather priority does not work with the SAME code. It does not.

Then also states "The NWS is not using the county segment code"

Which is correct. The NOAA Weather Radio system does NOT have the county segment code implemented.

Read the FAQ from the NWS about sub-county codes.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/sbwarnings/FAQ/FAQ.html

Question: I’ve heard about sub-county codes that can be used by NOAA Weather Radio to alert smaller areas. Will these codes by used?

Answer: Not during the initial implementation. There will be no change in the NOAA Weather Radio coding and dissemination of warnings with the implementation of storm-based warnings. Long-term there may be limited use of the partial county codes, but that is at least a year away.


It will NOT alert you if you do not enter the SAME code.

Wrong. The radio in weather priority with no SAME code entered will alert you based on the steady tone.

Really? You didn't say this implying that because he has been an active member longer he knows what he is talking about? Just because I haven't been I don't know what I am talking about?

It has no bearing on active membership. I've been using scanners FAR longer than you. I've developed FAR more weather apps than you. I'm a meteorologist. I'm an emergency manager.

I know the system.

You don't.
 

rdale

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RDALE, any preferences you have as a radio, portable, ac-battery, for SAME Weather Alerts. Not being a smart a--, but knowing your profession and respect your input, thanks, Steve.

Really depends on your needs. They are so cheap these days I'd get whatever works best, multiple if that helps.
 
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