EDACS Provoice Scanner?????

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johnls7424

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Does anyone foresee in the future ( hopefully near not far) that there will be a Provoice scanner invented? So nobody has to go through digital speech decoding.
 

GTR8000

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Considering the fact that Harris has announced EOL for EDACS systems by 2017...and no ProVoice scanners have been introduced after all these years of it being on the market...it's extremely unlikely (as in, no...it's not going to happen).
 

johnls7424

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That is true. I did not think of that. By 2017 the end of life will turn to P25 systems. Probably Phase II will be the standard by then
 

GTR8000

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P25 Phase II will be mandated for the 700 MHz spectrum by 2017, per the FCC's 6.25 kHz efficiency rules (47 CFR 90.535).
 

GM

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ProVoice (non-encrypted and not ESK format) is able to be monitored by purchasing a ProVoice capable radio from a number of radio vendors on the internet, as well as various websites (check the classifieds on this site as an example), and then having a reputable shop and/or radio tech program the radio for receive mode only (yes their is a way to have it programmed without it signing on to the TRS) if you don't want to go the DSD route. I very highly doubt, as stated earlier, that their ever will be a scanner to decode ProVoice. Even the older M/A Com Aegis and Motorola VSELP digital formats have never been available to the scanner market as of now...
 
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jaymatt1978

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The key is, as it always has been, they need to release the technology to the scanner manufacturers, then they can build a scanner to decode the signals. I have read de bates on whether Provoice is considered "encryption" therefor illegal to decode, but that's an other debate for another time
 

johnls7424

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Yeah it seems useless especially with EDACS becoming a older system and a replacement program that will be underway in the near future.

GM: I did not know they had software and radios out there specifically designed to listen to Provoice. Thanks for the info
 

puzzleriddle

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The key is, as it always has been, they need to release the technology to the scanner manufacturers, then they can build a scanner to decode the signals. I have read de bates on whether Provoice is considered "encryption" therefor illegal to decode, but that's an other debate for another time

ProVoice is NOT Encryption & NOT illegal to decode people have been doing it for years now... do a search for DSD + provoice. and read the digital decoding forums on RR..http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Digital_Speech_Decoder_(software_package)
 
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johnls7424

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Yes I understand Provoice is NOT encryption. Most of you either understand or don't understand that the DSD is not as easy as it looks to use and for greatest progress takes more than one radio to decode the entire transmission. People have mentioned that they do sell radios that specifically decode PROVOICE radio frequencies, but the tradeoff is that it costs lots of money.
 

johnls7424

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Figured I would add this into this forum cause its sort of relevant to the topic: On the Whistler 1080 and RadioShack Pro 668 ( possibly the PSR 800 as well) there is a feature where you can monitor hits from ProVoice talkgroups in a given trunked system. You CANNOT monitor actual voice transmissions when the control channel/voice channel is activated, but when either in scan mode or simply on a PV channel when the mic is keyed and voice is being transmitted ( encrypted or not) the radio will stop on the channel and you will hear the infamous ProVoice Harris control channel noise and the radio will display both the control channel used and the voice channel as well for the given talkgroup ID you were monitoring or it stopped on.

That is one step further to monitoring PV with a scanner, but given that its EOL ( end of life) is in only 2 more years. Its almost certain there will not be a PV scanner. Many PV talkgroups are in the process or have already migrated to other system voices, mostly P25 and or OpenScam ( for the suckers)
 

vans113

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I used to have a provoice system where I lived. I was able to trunk rack and hear everything using two bct-8 scanners with a discriminator tap on both. One scanner feed unitrunker. and unitrunker controlled the other scanner which also had a tap. that tap fed dsd on my computer. and unitrunker would follow it just like a radio and audio was excellent it worked great up until the day the system went offline.
 

johnls7424

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I used to have a provoice system where I lived. I was able to trunk rack and hear everything using two bct-8 scanners with a discriminator tap on both. One scanner feed unitrunker. and unitrunker controlled the other scanner which also had a tap. that tap fed dsd on my computer. and unitrunker would follow it just like a radio and audio was excellent it worked great up until the day the system went offline.

You sure can use DSD to monitor the voice. However that means using either a scanner with a discriminator output or performing a discriminator tap on your scanner. Which is fine. However with the price of used M/A com radios being so low and such it's almost as easy to purchase a radio and have it programmed for flawless radio transmissions. Is always a viable option.
 

johnls7424

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I was under the impression they'd backed off on this (or are least are considering it).

As far as I even know it's is set in stone and legal paperwork at all P-25 systems that are buildout after January 1 2015 must operate on 700mhz in at a minimum of phase 1 status. Which is 12.5kHz. Any radio system that has a buildout and operates from January 1, 2017 must operate in Phase 2 status which is 6.25 kHz.

That means you can operate a talkgeoup that is in Phase 1 up until December 31,2016. Any emissions in phase 1 must cease by then and migrate fully to emissions of 6.25 kHz which will be TDMA Phase 2 transmissons.

EDACS systems are still on a end of life for 2017. Doesn't not mean that you must cease operation of a EDACS system or its radio components, but Harris will not supply any more upgrades to its system(s) that operate in that system voice. It's a nice way of saying to its current customers who use this system ( being looking to migrate to another system voice cause we're done using this one and taking care of it and its components)
 

kayn1n32008

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P-25 systems that are buildout after January 1 2015 must operate on 700mhz in at a minimum of phase 1 status.

Can you provide a source that systems built after January 1/2015 MUST be on 700MHz?

Which is 12.5kHz.

Correct

...Phase 2 status which is 6.25 kHz.

No, it is 6.25KHz equivalent. The subscriber transmissions still occupies 12.5KHz,. Using TDMA, it breaks that 12.5KHz channel into two voice paths.
 
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kayn1n32008

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Check link above for current laws pertaining to FCC regs on transmission emissions and dates to migrate


Not seeing where you get that all P-25 systems built after January 1/2015 MUST be on 700MHz... All that link shows is that 700MHz spectrum usage post January 1/2015 must be 12.5KHz channels, and post 2017 must operate at 6.25KHz equivalent(meaning one voice path per 6.25KHz of spectrum. TDMA achieves that by having two voice paths per 12.5KHz channel)
 
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