Eugene blocking public access to police radio

by Associated Press

Posted on August 18, 2013 at 11:12 AM

Updated today at 11:14 AM

EUGENE, Ore. (AP) -- Authorities in Eugene are encrypting their radio channel to prevent the public from listening to police activity.

Police Lt. Nathan Reynolds told the Eugene Register-Guard that officials are trying to improve safety for officers. He says there are times when an officer responds to a crime and finds the suspect listening to the local police scanner.
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Eugene blocking public access to police radio | kgw.com Portland

BS. they're doing this to decrease accountability, not to promote "safety". It's so when they're hauled off to court for wrongfully shooting and killing some poor schmuck who wasn't even doing anything and asking all the questions later, there's no record of it in the public's hands and the otherwise guilty cop can get off scot-free.

Either that, or they just want to feel like they're "in control" of something.

Even if they had a Web page showing data on current cop activity, who's to say that they're accurate? What's to stop somebody from "accidentally" fudging up a few keystrokes, posting inaccurate positions and other glaring omissions?

I call BS

From the article:

"He says there are times when an officer responds to a crime and finds the suspect listening to the local police scanner."

I'd like to know how many of the prosecutor's cases actually involve finding someone guilty of having a scanner during the commission of a crime. My guess is nil, or very close to it. So, the next question becomes, why the push for less transparency in the land of public transit and granola?

Better yet have the feed provider show what the daily stats are. I know that I live in a townof 100,000 and my daily average is around 10 listeners. I think this is nothing more than an excuse.

B.S. Springfield has been encrypted for over 10 years and they still have a huge crime rate. What do they think, that criminals will just magically stop committing crime purely due to the fact that they won't be able to listen to police radios?

Just as an aside, EPD is effectively all encrypted right now. I haven't heard a peep on EPD channel 1 since yesterday afternoon. Pro96Com hasn't logged anything on EPD 1 either.

So, EPD 1 may not be encrypted yet (if you choose to believe the story), but they have stopped using it.

All their other talkgroups have been encrypted for quite some time so the effect is the same.....

So much for a "public service" agency being open and accountable....

And yes, the "officer safety" excuse is BS. It's always been very easy for them to switch to an encrypted channel if they want to.

I saw on the news yesterday that they also cited scanner apps as a reason for encryption...despite there being no RadioReference audio feeds for any law enforcement in Lane County.

Let's see....Washington and Clackamas Counties are completely unencrypted, even on their tactical nets. Even when they go simplex, they are clear over-the-air. Most officers have access to MDTs. And I think pretty much every one of them either has a NEXTEL or a personal cell phone if they need it.

We have the same, if not more, problems that Lane county faces. We have scanner users up here - a LOT of them from what I know (and that's just counting the friendlies).

We also have a lot of media agencies in the metro area who either have scanners, radios provided by WCCCA/C800 (I'm not sure whether they're charged a fee or not), or maybe even both at the same time. And they have the tac channels, not just dispatch!

Combined, Washington and Clackamas has nearly 3 times the population of Lane County. I think it's safe to say that means we probably have more crime here, ergo more criminals with scanners, and yet - it seems on a lot of calls I've listened in to (chases, barricaded subjects, etc), not ONE was reported to have a scanner on them. If they did, it wasn't publicized.

So...where's the "officer safety" issues here? Why haven't law enforcement agencies around here cried out that scanners are causing problems like Eugene and Springfield? Do we just have dumb criminals up here, and all the smart ones are in Eugene?

If you need to encrypt tac channels for SWAT, vice, drugs, and the like, then fine - be my guest. In cases that are sensitive, I understand the need to have secure communications. But going to encrypt your day-to-day operations? Not a smart move if you want to keep a good image with the public.

I would hazard a bet that less than 1% of the people Eugene arrest have scanners with them. That's a gratuitous number, considering that would take 1500 arrests to equal 1% of the population in the city alone.

Just like the Daily Dead Fish Wrapper, this story stinks, and I don't buy it.

Well I expect CCS (crooked cop syndrome) will spread from Springfield to Eugene now, look at the fine example Springfield had, .before he quit

I also wonder what these news organizations will do once their upgraded (scanner) that they are paying for arrives and they realize it is a police radio with the PTT inhibited and the police will be able to tell when it is on and what "channel" they are listening to.

David Kb7uns

That article seems to lack a whole lot of information...

There is no more Nextel. You do not have a right to listen to the police.
If there is an issue an appropriate subpeona may be issued for the clear version of the recordings.
Just because there is encryption does not mean LEO's will go out and shoot people. Encryption has nothing to do with transparency. Where this believe has come from I don't know perhaps some are paranoid. The phone apps certainly were the final nail in the coffin of scanners. While LE may not have been happy with scanner listeners it was not available on everyone's phone.
The desire to make a few short term bucks through advertising has crippled the scanner users in many areas.
It's not even pure encryption, it is the salesperson going out with DMR, Trbo, Nexedge, etc. and showing the buyer that there are no scanners that allow anyone to easily listen.
Some places have even encrypted fire and justified that because of the press and HIPPA.

What's weird too is it seems like the smaller cities and podunk towns encrypt their comms more frequently than the bigger cities. In Arizona, the town of Marana has encrypted most all comms and Tucson is still open. I guess that will likely change when they go to PCWIN.

Digital Trunked Radio

go buy a digital trunking scanner.A couple of agencies in my county went Digital P25 so I bought a digital scanner.

Just like the clear and transparent we are getting from the NSA, WE ARE NOT being PARANOID. These are the same type of reasons why we handed the British exit papers with a kick in the rear.

Have a friend that has been in law enforcement management in the state and you will not believe some of the crap our law enforcement people do.

David Kb7uns

dkf435 said:

Have a friend that has been in law enforcement management in the state and you will not believe some of the crap our law enforcement people do.

David Kb7uns

Click to expand...

and absolutely none of it is done under the shroud of secrecy that radio encryption provides.

Folks may not have a "right" to listen to LE communications, and certainly there is no law prohibiting encryption. But it hampers mutual aid and interoperability, situational awareness by other agencies, accountability and transparency to the public (resulting in lost support and tax dollars), the extra set of "eyes" from the monitoring public, and so forth. IMHO, there is more to be gained by remaining in the clear than throwing up a brick wall.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to administrators and public officials not wanting to play in the sandbox with others. They want to keep their fancy toys for themselves and sit in their own little corner or sand castle, ruling their fiefdom.

Oh, and HIPPA does not require encrypted radio traffic: HIPAA Didn’t Kill the Radio Star | Public Safety Communications

No one has mentioned just what kind of a system this is. My guess is that it is a Motorola supported system. Maybe you haven't been keeping track of what is going on around the country, but just about all the systems that have gone full encryption are the newer Motorola ones.

The Motorola sales teams are trained to extract every cent they can out of the un educated when it comes to radio systems. You have to pay extra for all the encryption hardware that is required in most of the radios. So if the sales teams can bend the ear of the department heads and they use the smoke and mirrors act on them. Guess what? Yup, their sales commission check just got a good size larger. All at the expense of the tax payers like you and me.

radiomanNJ1 said:

There is no more Nextel.

Click to expand...

I agree on that no more Nextel. The City/County I use to live they went to P25 Fire is in the Clear but PD/SO are Encrypted.

2wayfreq said:

What's weird too is it seems like the smaller cities and podunk towns encrypt their comms more frequently than the bigger cities. In Arizona, the town of Marana has encrypted most all comms and Tucson is still open. I guess that will likely change when they go to PCWIN.

Click to expand...

I use to live in a city that roughly between 20,000 to 25,000 people. The county is over 100,000. They went to a new system beginning of the year and the County SO / City PD went to Encryption of the Nextel shut down. The FD in City/County are in the clear but soon will Encrypted so they can talk to another county if anything major happens.

Unfortunately for us, who use scanners as a hobby to monitor public safety and have no impact on the personal safety of those who are employed in these positions . Has gun control worked ? Restraining orders worked ? Drug, alcohol, home invasions, car jacking, the list can go on and on. Encryption will back fire, just another sales pitch.

jim202 said:

The Motorola sales teams are trained to extract every cent they can out of the un educated when it comes to radio systems. You have to pay extra for all the encryption hardware that is required in most of the radios..

Click to expand...

Most all new Motorola Systems would be using APX radios. APX comes with ADP encryption standard no extra cost. And if they go with the XTS series its only $8 per radio.

Now ADP is not a big secure encryption but its a great anti scanner encryption

Scanning is a HOBBY that's all.