Kenwood Tk-2180 vs Motorola XPR6550

Hi, I am a firefighter/emt looking to purchase either a Kenwood Tk-2180 or Motorola XPR6550. My dept. uses Kenwood and we are VHF. i stumbled across the motorola and decided to see if anyone could offer some advice before I shell out some big bucks on a 2 way. So, my question is, has anyone used both of these radios and would be able to help me decide which one to buy? Or any advice about one of them if you dont have experience with both. Thank you all for the advice, Nick

nickyb11091 said:

Hi, I am a firefighter/emt looking to purchase either a Kenwood Tk-2180 or Motorola XPR6550. My dept. uses Kenwood and we are VHF. i stumbled across the motorola and decided to see if anyone could offer some advice before I shell out some big bucks on a 2 way. So, my question is, has anyone used both of these radios and would be able to help me decide which one to buy? Or any advice about one of them if you dont have experience with both. Thank you all for the advice, Nick

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IMO I would not recommend getting the XPR6550. My department switched over to those radios about a year or so ago and we have had nothing but problems with them ever since. For one, the battery life on them is terrible. You are lucky to get 8-10 hours of battery life and that is with the high capacity battery. Also, the transmit and recieve is not the best either. We have had one of the XPR6550s sitting right next to one of our old radios (TK-272) and the kenwood picked it up clear as day and the XPR didn't even break squelch.

Now I don't have any personal experience with the TK-2180, but I do use the TK-2312 as my personal radio and I love it. If your looking for just a conventional vhf radio than that would fit you well. On the plus side you can find the software for it online and program it yourself and the radio itself is also very affordable.

Thank you very much! I really appreciate the feedback.

I would imagine the XPR series to be much more expensive than the Kenwood, but I don't know for sure as I've never priced them.
My department uses TK2180K2 radios and they're decent. However, you need to know a little more about your department's radio system before you pull the trigger on a purchase.

- Is it plain vanilla analog VHF or are you using NEXEDGE/NXDN digital? The TK2180 does analog only. (The XPR will do analog or MOTOTRBO, but since your other radios are Kenwood, I'm betting heavily on that proprietary Motorola digital mode not being a factor.)
- Do you need MDC1200 signaling? Only recent (>1.19 IIRC) versions of TKx180 firmware handle MDC1200 (if you don't know if you need it or not, your radio tech can tell you). If you are buying a used radio you need to either make sure it's 1.19 or newer, or have whoever's programming it raise the firmware up to that level.

Also, consider that Kenwood programming software and programming cables are going to be substantially cheaper than Motorola if you go with the OEM stuff.

We are analog, VHF. As for the MDC1200; I will be honest, I dont even know what that is. Our dept. just got these radios for our ambulances and I liked them much more than the portables we needed to carry. I just assumed the settings were saved from the amb's and my could just be flashed to the same settings. If I do need need that is that a specific radio I need, or just the software to program it?
Nick

I've owned Kenwood x180's for about 6 or 7 years now. They've been pretty good radios but I have had some problems with them. They are analog radios and geared more towards business and industry and light public safety use.
The XPR is a analog and digital radio. You'll pay more for them but they have some water resistance. I have had an XPR portable (non display) since last winter. I'm a little surprised to hear AYoung say theirs are getting poor battery life. Mine gets suberb battery life but I do primarily use it in digital and that can make a huge difference and perhaps that's an explanation.

As mentioned the software and cable are going to be very expensive on the motorola if you don't have someone else to program it for you. The 180's have more channels and have more features and are also easier to jump right in and customize the way you want. The bottom line I guess is if you don't need a digital radio or a submersible radio, I'd go with the 180.

If you are a firefighter, you may not be able to use a regular radio like that on scene. Often, they will want the radio to be I.S. ( Intrinsically Safe ). The Kenwood NX-200 can be ordered that way. As for water intrusion, the NX-200 can be ordered with the IP-67 rating ( rated for immersion ) and FM ( Factory Mutual ) approvals.

As for MDC-1200, I wouldn't purchase a radio without it. It's pretty common in public safety analog use, and most newer radios have it. Ever since Motorola's patent on it expired, it's pretty much showing up in all new radios.

If you plan on using this radio on the job, I'd find out exactly what the requirements would be. Any has-mat type work would likely require the IS rating. Anywhere you are going to get wet, get the IP-67 immersion rating.

The benefit of the NX-200 is that it can be sent back to the factory later and upgraded to P25, if your department goes that way. That can't be done with a XPR, as far as I know. That alone might be an important consideration if you think your department, or any that you mutual aid with, might go to P25.

Programming will be required. Unless your department has the specific model you purchase, you will likely need to create a new file for your radio. This can be done by a shop if you don't wish to do it yourself.

It's a pretty big world you are walking into here. It would be wise to figure out exactly what you need to have to do your job, and make a list. Use that list to search for a radio. Going into it blind will likely end up with you purchasing a radio that doesn't do what you need, or does way to much and costs more.

Thanks for the advice, I think I am def. going to go with the kenwood, as for which one i may start looking at different ones. They offer the IS for the 2180 but not every 2180 is, so im looking into if it is or not, and the 2180 has IP 54/55 environmental protection, is that basically the same as the IP67?

The 2180 is not immersion (IP67) rated. One of my firefighters lost her radio while helping put a stretcher in an ambulance once. Turns out it fell from her turnout pocket into a mud puddle, face-down. We found it after about an hour of looking and it was stone dead, replacement time.

Other than that, in the fire service, they're not bad. I have had one other radio with physical damage - a photographer demanded a firefighter get close to a flame and stay there for a photo shoot, and the radio was clipped to the outside of his coat. The front housing melted - I've yet to try to get it repaired, although it does power up and xmit/receive (though of course it's not been left in service!). One or two radios have had belt clips, battery clips, and other such plastic appendages break, but so long as you're not using them for carpentry or "percussive compliance" on a patient, I think you should be OK.

IP54/55 is basically splash/rain protection. IP67 is immersion for 30 minutes. Big difference.

If you are going to be using your radio on the job, don't go cheap.

If you really need an all out VHF radio, take a look at the Kenwood TK-5210. It'll set you back close to $2K, but it can be used for "percussive compliance" as Jay suggested.

To be honest, though, I have a Kenwood TK-5210, a TK-290 and an NX-410 at work. All of them are plenty durable and good solid radios. I'm not a fire fighter though, so you will experience different results. I carried a Motorola MTS-2000 for 15 years, and while they are very durable, the TK's and NX radios are probably darn near as durable, and a hell of a lot less expensive.

If you don't have to have a new one, you can look for any number of used VHF narrow band capable VHF radios. It'll save you some money, but you won't get all the latest bells and whistles.

I wouldn't buy a Mototrbo radio for an analog system, especially if (assuming) this will be a personal purchase. It's just a waste of money. Motorola has other cheaper but generally quality options, as do several other vendors in addition to Kenwood.

I wonder what you typcally do for your fire dept. I mean, some folks go interior or do other hardcore stuff, and others spend most of their time riding in an ambulance, which could make a huge difference with what type of radio you may need. Some do it all. If you would describe your duties as "hardcore", I'd definitely go with the high quality stuff if you can afford it. If your duties are typically more "light", you can save a ton of money and probably get away with a lot of cheaper choices. Maybe if you can elaborate a little more than just "firefighter/EMT", and some of the folks here might help you zero in on a few specific choices. Good luck.

The XPR6550 is submersable (IP57 - up to 1 meter for up to 30 minutes) and it can be ordered for Intrinsically Safe (tested and certified by Factory Mutual, who is -the- standard in this industry in the U.S. Some radio manufacturers will use other companies for I.S. certification).

Channel capacity is up to 1000 channels.

Battery life, with the high-capacity battery, is specified as up to 13 hours, but of course, that depends a lot upon the amount of transmitting and receiving (open squelch) and even the volume level while receiving (higher volume on any radio will result in higher current drain). Also, using channel scan will result in less 'run-time' on any radio, too.

Overall performance of the XPR6550 has been good, based on my own personal use of one for many years, as well as reports from other users in my area.

However, if I was spending the money on an XPR6550 myself, I would spend a bit more and get the XPR7550. It's got a larger, bright, color display and performs extremely well. The XPR7550 uses the same physical 'platform' as the APX4000 series portables. There are quite a few of these units out in our area, being used on analog systems by ambulance personnel, and the users have been very very happy with them. But, I think you're going to pay quite a bit more for an XPR7550 as compared to the Kenwood model that you mentioned.

Whatever you get, I would strongly recommend that you get a radio that meets the IP57 or IP67 rating, for water submersion, if you're using it in the fire service. I've seen too many radios that have been completely ruined, when they've gotten wet (and not submerged, but just wet from standing in the rain and using it).

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM

I have a TK-290, which I bought from a guy in my military FD, when he was wanting to upgrade. It has worked well for me.

You can buy aftermarket programming cables from Ebay, but would suggest buying legit software from your Kenwood dealer.

The XPR6550 is miles above the Kenwood 80 series, here's why.
The XPR is a current production, fully supported modern radio with digital (DMR) capability if you ever go that route. It is IP57 rated, the Kenwood 80 series are not.

The 80 series, while excellent performing radios, are medium to light duty radios. They will NOT stand up to water or harsh treatment. The XPR's are a bit heavier duty industrial radios, and also offer the Factory Mutual IS option for certified use in hazardous atmospheres.

The Kenwood 80 series is a decade plus old design. It is on the chopping block and the problem is, once it's officially out of production, Kenwood is quick to drop parts support for their radios once they go out of production and warranty support. This means no new firmware updates, no new KPG updates either. So if you buy one new today, there is a good chance 3-5 years out you will be replacing it with something else if it breaks.

Motorola offers a flat rate repair service on the XPR series, Kenwood does not. The XPR is also a current product with ongoing firmware updates and support from the factory, and Motorola's policy is to support portable subscriber radios with depot service (and thus parts and firmware) for up to 5 years when the last one rolls off the production line. So if you buy one today and they are cancelled tomorrow, 5 years from now you can still get service on it.

On the 7550, I had one for a while and while it is an AWESOME radio, the one weak spot was battery life (compared to the 6550). I could easily kill mine in two days of RX only at 10hrs a day, with very little to no TX. OTOH, my 6550 with the same capacity battery will go for close to a week of RX only at 8-10 hrs a day. Huge difference.

Anyone complaining of subpar battery life on a 6550 should have it checked, or the battery checked out. Of course, like all modern computer controlled radios, the radio operating system (firmware) should be up to date. If your XPRs are running some ancient firmware like 1.06 or less this might explain your problems. The current release for XPR6550 has vast improvements in audio quality and performance. And another great benefit of having a fully supported product are those updates. They are FREE for anyone who buys a subscription to TRBO CPS from Motorola and you can install them yourself.

I want to thank everyone for the feedback, I am now starting to research other radios that meet the IS and submersion. Someone asked what my main role is. My fire dept. is a combination staff and call dept. I work mainly day shifts. We are staffed with 3 FF/EMTs, and average about 3 calls a day, usually 2/3 are medical calls (we run our own ambulance). Its located in Northeast Ma, so weather can constantly change. I looked on Kenwoods site and it doesnt appear that they offer any options for VHF IS with the IP67....

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The NX-200 can be ordered that way I believe.

another great portable is the Vertex Standard VX-924, these can be ordered with the IS option, and are IP57 rated as well. Very rugged and solidly built radio, and surprising affordable- if all you need is analog operation. They do all signaling formats including MDC1200, 2/5 tone, and support a host of options.

I've owned one of these and it was a top performer, excellent battery life too. These can also be had on the used market for under $250 depending on who is selling, and software is readily available. Of course, with any used radio being placed into life safety service, I recommend a PM check by a qualified personnel (especially with IS rated products) to document it being fit for duty.

http://www.vertexstandard.com/lmr/Portables/VX-920

evfd1625 said:

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The NX-200 can be ordered that way I believe.

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Yes, they can. NX-200 has a number of benefits. They can be ordered with IS ratings, as well as IP-67 submersion rating. Yellow and Orange housings are available.
The biggest benefit to the NX-200 is that they can be "reflashed" to remove the NXDN capability and replace it with P25. While his department may be analog right now, down the road things can change. Since the NX-200 is a relatively new radio, it going out of support is not going to happen any time soon.

NX-200 with IS and IP67 6 key keypad and display has a list price of $867, but you should be able to get it quite a bit cheaper than that.

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The only downside I think to the NX-200 is the only battery options are a 1900 mAh and 2550 mAh Lion, so if these won't work for your usage, I think those are the only ones available. I get 1 and a half days out of my 2550 mAh battery on standby listening for pages and some small analog tx with my NX-200.