Antenna Patch Panel

N9JIG · Oct 18, 2014

For the home we are going to build next year in Arizona I want to build my shack using a patch panel connecting to multiple antennas in the attic. Since we will not be allowed external antennas and the area is fairly high (overlooking the valley) this should work pretty well. The home will have a cathedral attic with plenty of room for antennas.

I figure on having three types of antennas (HF, Scanner, and Two-Way), with several of each type. I will also have a couple spare coax runs for future use.

I figure on using N connectors/LMR400 for the 2-ways (2 ham dual banders and a couple CDM's), SO-239's/RG8 for the HF antennas (SWL and occasional HF voice work with an IC7000) and F connectors/RG6QS for scanner antennas.

I would like to make or have made a patch panel with 6 of each of the connectors and run the cables to the attic. I would put in 3 25' and 3 50' pre-made cables of each type since I suck at installing connectors on coax. This would allow me to place the antennas at various locations in the attic depending on proximity to other antennas etc. It will also give me a spare or two of each type for future use.

I am hoping to be able to get the builder to put in a ground rod in the den/shack during construction but the room backs up to a bathroom so I could get a cold water pipe if needed. I am also asking that they put in a chase from the den/shack to the attic for these antennas.

The questions I have include:

Should I use a copper plate for the patch panel or is steel or aluminum sufficient?

Does anyone make pre-drilled patch panels or have a suggestion on where I can have one made?

Should I just bite the bullet and go with LMR400/N connectors for all the antennas?

mmckenna · Oct 18, 2014

I'd say go with LMR400 and N connectors for everything. Maybe a run of RG6 with F connectors for good measure. N connectors will cover you well up into the GHz range, no telling what you may need down the road. UHF connectors would work just fine, but standardization can be a handy thing. Not sure if you are going to install lightning arrestors or not, but most of the good commercial ones have N connectors on them.

What we've done at our sites is install these:
https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=431411&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1
It's a copper ground buss that gets tied into the ground system. We bring our coaxial runs down to it and mount the lightning arrestors to this bar. We then use jumpers to connect to the equipment.

Here is a photo from one of our sites:

Have the electrician run a #6 or larger ground wire from the main grounding point for your home to where you are going to mount your panel. An additional ground rod right at the patch panel wouldn't hurt, but you need to have all your grounds connected together at the main point.

You can certainly make your own patch panel. I'd recommend the copper, but aluminum would work and be easy to drill. You need a low impedance path, and either will work. Copper is more standard in the industry, though.

AK9R · Oct 18, 2014

N9JIG said:
I am hoping to be able to get the builder to put in a ground rod in the den/shack during construction but the room backs up to a bathroom so I could get a cold water pipe if needed.

Not likely. Most residential construction these days uses PEX rather than copper. PEX is a polyethylene plastic. Plumbers have various ways of attaching the PEX to fittings and for connecting T, elbows, etc. My house was built 5 years ago, granted in Indiana and not Arizona, and all of the supply piping is PEX and the drain piping is PVC. Unless you are paying extra for it, you probably will not get copper pipe.

The electrician drove two ground rods near the electric service entrance and tied the meter base and the breaker box to the two ground rods. The telephone and cable TV demarcs are near the meter and they are bonded to the ground rods, too. One thing I noticed in the Phoenix area is that on many of the newly-constructed houses, the breaker panel is on the outside of the house right next to the meter base.

Since your antennas will be in an attic, some may question whether or not you'll need lightning protection for the antennas. It couldn't hurt. I know the Tuscon area gets lots of thunderstorms with spectacular lightning. I lived in Scottsdale for a year and we didn't have many t-storms while I was there.

N9JIG · Oct 18, 2014

Ugh! Plastic water pipes, eh? Well, I will have to check with the builders on that. For the price we are paying for this house the pipes should be made of gold...

If I can't get a ground rod inside I could put one just outside and bring it in thru the wall.

I am thinking of Polyphasers but don't know if they would be an issue for the HF antennas.

ofd8001 · Oct 18, 2014

You are thinking about running a chase from your shack to the attic - which is an excellent idea. You might think about another chase (probably a run of PVC) from your shack to the outside. From there you could run a ground wire for antenna stuff to a driven ground rod outside. Probably something the electrical contractor could do when they are doing the ground for the electrical service. I'd think if you communicated your desires to the builder, they should be able to devise something.

If you are doing a basement, a chase from the attic to the basement might also be something of value in the future. That could be helpful at a later point - you never know what will come up later - stuff that isn't in existence now. I'd go with the largest diameter PVC the walls would handle.

mmckenna · Oct 18, 2014

N9JIG said:
I am thinking of Polyphasers but don't know if they would be an issue for the HF antennas.

They won't be a problem if you purchase the correct versions.

N5TWB · Oct 19, 2014

N9JIG said:
Ugh! Plastic water pipes, eh? Well, I will have to check with the builders on that. For the price we are paying for this house the pipes should be made of gold...

Use copper throughout and you will really believe they used gold pipes. Additionally, every tweaker within 10 miles will consider your place a gold mine as they come in to rip out the copper to get scrap price for it. You will get to pay gold prices to replace it multiple times.

prcguy · Oct 19, 2014

Looking at the pics I see some mistakes in wiring if this is for lightning ground. The ground conductors would usually be much larger or preferably 2 or 3" wide copper strap. I see one ground bus is daisy chained to another and thats not good practice, they should all have home runs to a central ground point.

The unprotected side of one bus passes over the protected side of another, also bad practice for lightning bypass. Is that yellow CAT5 and other type cable running parallel with the unprotected side of the coax? There should be a point where all unprotected cables end and they do not venture into the protected area.

If your going to add any additional ground rods be sure to bond them to the main electrical ground per NEC article 810 specs (for the US). For indoor antennas (attic) I don't believe NEC applies and you probably don't need any ground for safety or lightning.
prcguy

mmckenna said:
I'd say go with LMR400 and N connectors for everything. Maybe a run of RG6 with F connectors for good measure. N connectors will cover you well up into the GHz range, no telling what you may need down the road. UHF connectors would work just fine, but standardization can be a handy thing. Not sure if you are going to install lightning arrestors or not, but most of the good commercial ones have N connectors on them.

What we've done at our sites is install these:
https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=431411&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1
It's a copper ground buss that gets tied into the ground system. We bring our coaxial runs down to it and mount the lightning arrestors to this bar. We then use jumpers to connect to the equipment.

Here is a photo from one of our sites:

Have the electrician run a #6 or larger ground wire from the main grounding point for your home to where you are going to mount your panel. An additional ground rod right at the patch panel wouldn't hurt, but you need to have all your grounds connected together at the main point.

You can certainly make your own patch panel. I'd recommend the copper, but aluminum would work and be easy to drill. You need a low impedance path, and either will work. Copper is more standard in the industry, though.

N9JIG · Oct 19, 2014

ofd8001 said:
You are thinking about running a chase from your shack to the attic - which is an excellent idea. You might think about another chase (probably a run of PVC) from your shack to the outside. From there you could run a ground wire for antenna stuff to a driven ground rod outside. Probably something the electrical contractor could do when they are doing the ground for the electrical service. I'd think if you communicated your desires to the builder, they should be able to devise something.

If you are doing a basement, a chase from the attic to the basement might also be something of value in the future. That could be helpful at a later point - you never know what will come up later - stuff that isn't in existence now. I'd go with the largest diameter PVC the walls would handle.

No basement, the house is going to be on a slab. The den/office is going to have an outside window so I think I can get them to put in a tub to the yard from there, if not it shouldn't be hard to do it afterward.

A friend at the CARMA meeting yesterday told me to get in the house after it is framed with a still camera and take pictures. This is so I know where the fire stops are, where studs are etc. so when I remodel later or add circuits I can make better choices. That makes a lot of sense.

I think I will also ask that they add a couple additional circuits in the office like I have now so power is not an issue. While I am not anticipating any big HF kilo-amps or anything like that 4 computers and 25 radios with 3 30A power supplies adds up...

N9JIG · Oct 19, 2014

mmckenna said:
I'd say go with LMR400 and N connectors for everything. Maybe a run of RG6 with F connectors for good measure. N connectors will cover you well up into the GHz range, no telling what you may need down the road. UHF connectors would work just fine, but standardization can be a handy thing. Not sure if you are going to install lightning arrestors or not, but most of the good commercial ones have N connectors on them.

What we've done at our sites is install these:
https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=431411&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1
It's a copper ground buss that gets tied into the ground system. We bring our coaxial runs down to it and mount the lightning arrestors to this bar. We then use jumpers to connect to the equipment.

Here is a photo from one of our sites:

Have the electrician run a #6 or larger ground wire from the main grounding point for your home to where you are going to mount your panel. An additional ground rod right at the patch panel wouldn't hurt, but you need to have all your grounds connected together at the main point.

You can certainly make your own patch panel. I'd recommend the copper, but aluminum would work and be easy to drill. You need a low impedance path, and either will work. Copper is more standard in the industry, though.

At work we have a 100 foot tower and a dozen antennas on it, fed with 1/2 hardline (for monitor antennas_ or 7/8 hardline (transmit antennas), each going to a PolyPhaser on a copper bulkhead connected to the grounding field. Of course that is for a mission-critical application and would certainly be overkill for me but it is kind of the idea I want to emulate.

While I am not sure if I would need Polyphasers for the attic antennas I like the patch panel idea. I am still debating whether to do that or just run the coax directly to the radios/multicouplers to minimize connector loss.

I am planning on relocating the cabinets I have in my shack now (see http://forums.radioreference.com/pictures-your-shack-mobile-setup/294794-n9jig-racks-shack.html) so perhaps the patch panel would not be as necessary.

prcguy · Oct 19, 2014

If you have a rack or some way to mount a rack panel you can buy premade BNC or N patch panels from various mfrs. Here is one with BNC and you can get them with a top and bottom row so your antennas come in on the top and patch with short BNC jumpers to equipment connected to the bottom row.

1.75" Panel, 16 BNC Adapters Grounded - PR175B16GBLK

In my shack I run all antenna cables, mostly LDF4-50 Heliax and LMR400 to an aluminum L bracket 2" X 2" X 1/4" thick and 24" long with a bunch of N type bulkhead connectors installed. The L bracket mounts to the wall above a central radio area and allows the antenna cables to run straight down a wall from a cable tray right into the bulkhead N adapters. This L bracket is also the final grounding point near some of the radio equipment but there are Polyphaser arrestors upstream at another ground point.

I find its handy to see all the antenna cables running down the wall which are labeled and patch via N connectors to any equipment in the house.
prcguy

mmckenna · Oct 19, 2014

prcguy said:
Looking at the pics I see some mistakes in wiring if this is for lightning ground. The ground conductors would usually be much larger or preferably 2 or 3" wide copper strap. I see one ground bus is daisy chained to another and thats not good practice, they should all have home runs to a central ground point.

Yeah, not the best of the installs we have. The contractor did good work elsewhere. Can't stop the network guys from where they run their cables, though.

It gives an idea though, and that's all I was going for. It's the only photo I had handy.

prcguy · Oct 19, 2014

Yup, the network guys can screw up a steel ball if you let them touch it. Thats why they use Velcro instead of Ty-Raps these days or they would pinch off the network cables.
prcguy

mmckenna said:
Yeah, not the best of the installs we have. The contractor did good work elsewhere. Can't stop the network guys from where they run their cables, though.

It gives an idea though, and that's all I was going for. It's the only photo I had handy.

jeatock · Oct 19, 2014

Go with N-style connectors, and polyphasers mounted to a copper buss.

Chases are cheap now, but very expensive later... better to have an empty pipe than to wish for enough room for 'just one more' coax. IF you have room for it, a closet or cabinet next to the working area can keep things tidy, plus prevent little fingers from twiddling with the innards.

I have never been to a site where there was too much grounding. R56_2005_manual.pdf is the bible.

KZ9G · Nov 26, 2014

Even if they do install copper pipe in the house, nearly all water installs have plastic pipe from the meter to just inside the house. Basically rendering grounding to the copper pipe useless. Have a rod installed right outside the radio room and have them run a pipe through the slab that you can run a ground through.

scottyhetzel · Jan 8, 2015

I'm an electrician, I would run a separate ground rod., close to your shack..the size is usually 5/8 x 6 foot.... You get noise and inductance on the common ground rod at the main panel. ENT resi duct flex comes in 1/2 to 2 inch sizes. Super flexible... The rule of thumb is the nation electric code...find out what's your local building dept. recommends for version. They are usually helpful.... Run a dedicated circuit to your shack... Otherwise you will get the standard 14 ga common branch circuit tied in with you wife's vacuum in the other room. Most track electrician use the push in terminals on the outlets and not the screws...time is money.... Find out when you pull one out... 15 circuit. Are good for 1420 watts. I prefer a nice 20 amp circuit that handles 1920 watts.

FKimble · Jan 8, 2015

Bring the coax from the antennas to the backside of the "patch" panel then a jumper from the front side to the radio. This way you only have 2 pieces of coax per run from antenna to radio. When you do it the other way you end up with 3 pieces of coax per radio/ant combo. Less cables = less ends = less potential problems = less signal loss(I know it won't be much). And it keeps things simple. Get a piece of flat plate, copper. aluminum, etc. Drill appropiate size holes to mount barrel connectors to the plate and a couple holes for mounting and your good to go. Also be aware not all antennaes come with N connectors so some planning may keep you from having to use adapters from N to what ever at the antenna end and the radio end.

N9JIG · Jan 8, 2015

Now that we are getting closer to a decision on a house I am looking closer at the antenna situation. I am leaning towards running the antenna coax for scanner antennas directly to the multicouplers themselves (I am planning on 5 scanner antennas going into 5 multicouplers).

For the various HF and VHF/UHF transceiver antennas I am now leaning towards leaving enough coax length to run them directly to the radios and eliminating the patch panel idea altogether. All antennas will be in the cathedral attic except for a possible wire in the back yard.

If we buy a resale home I am considering drilling thru the slab and into the earth for a ground rod right in the office/shack. If we have a home constructed I would ask the builder to do this.

I don't know if this (drill thru the slab) is a good idea or not. All the homes we are looking at are on a slab in the desert, and this would eliminate having to bring a ground wire in from outside.
Thoughts plus or minus on this idea?

N5TWB · Jan 8, 2015

N9JIG said:
I don't know if this (drill thru the slab) is a good idea or not. All the homes we are looking at are on a slab in the desert, and this would eliminate having to bring a ground wire in from outside.
Thoughts plus or minus on this idea?

Try to find out if the slab is a post-tension slab where cables are placed before pouring the slab, tied to the stem wall, and pulled into tension after the concrete cures. Hitting one of those when drilling would not be optimal. If you're building, no problem since the ground rod could be placed to avoid the cables.

AK9R · Jan 8, 2015

Even if it's not a post-tension slab, drilling into a water or sewer line buried in the slab would be a real problem.

Antenna Patch Panel

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