Help With Short Distance Radios

Hello everyone,

I'm a paramedic student and minor hockey coach, and this year I figured I'd bring the two together for the league that I volunteer with. What we are looking to start up is a small group of emergency first aiders who are present at all games, available to provide first aid to kids who are hurt on the ice, or spectators in the stands who need help. We are looking to set up a radio system to link the first aiders with the league executive office (which is also in the arena, separated by a couple of block walls), as well as the time-keeper.

I was hoping for some tips on getting started with the radio aspect of this project. We want to make sure we have enough volume on the radios to be heard in the arena environment, and enough voice quality to be able to communicate clearly. This raises some issues with FRS.

While we're looking at setting up the radio system, we'd like to set up radios for the following:

- Radio contact between first-aiders
- Radio contact between coaches and music control room (for announcement of players who have scored)
- Radio contact between police foundations students (who we are also looking at bringing in)
- Radio contact between the executive office and time keeper box

Ideally we'd have a channel for each of these, but with the ability to change channels should other people need to be contacted.

The arena isn't particularly big (nothing NHL sized, just an average public arena with block walls separating change-rooms and the offices).

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Oliner

Just to add, our league is in Toronto, Ontario, in the North York region. I posted in here in case anyone has recommendations for local providers of commercial radios or whatnot.

Oliner67 said:

Just to add, our league is in Toronto, Ontario, in the North York region. I posted in here in case anyone has recommendations for local providers of commercial radios or whatnot.

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I will send you a PM.. I have someone who can help you in your area.

GMRS would certainly have been my first suggestion. While there are radio models that are not much better than bubble-pack toys (0.5 watt FRS-only ones), there are some that support higher power (2 watts) separate speaker-mics/earpieces (to address the arena noise issue), as well as "tone squelch" to keep the radios quiet until a signal is received from another radio using the same tone.

Thanks for the help so far. I take it the recommendation would be to go with commercial grade radios programmed only to GMRS frequencies? Does anyone have any suggestions for UHF? Not sure if it's the same thing, or if licensing is required.

Thanks,

Oliner.

Not to detract from what you are wanting to do but why not just call St. John Ambulance or another volunteer first aid agency (heck even MedVents may be able to assist..)? I'd be worried about any legal matters from rendering aid and insurance for providing first aid (even in a volunteer capacity) gets expensive rather quick. Its one thing to simply provide first aid if one is in the right place at the right time, a whole other story if you are providing it in any official or semi official capacity.

Don't even get me started on first aid supply costs...


Also regarding the police foundation students- what are they going to be doing?

Thanks for the reply.

We're looking at all options, and want to explore each one comprehensively. We're looking to model our program after what other sports leagues have, specifically what many minor football leagues have set up. In some leagues, they are required to have athletic trainers present at all games, who are first aid certified.

I'm involved with MedVents, and we simply don't have enough people to cover the sheer volume of shifts involved. Not to mention that most participants are young high school students with their own busy schedules, who in many cases would be younger than the players.

In any case, we're looking at having a radio system set up regardless.

We have the necessary insurance and reserve funds to foot the costs and supplies. It's something that we've been looking at doing for a long time. Now it's time to make it happen.

Using a repeater would be your best option to minimize the dead spot areas. However doing so will require the organization to acquire a license for 2 frequencies for each channel you want to use. Both medical people and the score people should each use their own channel.

in the end it comes down to what you want to pay for the system. Analog 200+ each portable radio and digital at 600+. That is the price for one radio and doesnt include cost for license or repeater

Oliner67 said:

Thanks for the help so far. I take it the recommendation would be to go with commercial grade radios programmed only to GMRS frequencies?

Thanks,

Oliner.

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Better check that option carefully, doesn't sound legit to me.

Dave

Motorola DTR could work.

Motorola DTR radios are digital, fairly short range yet have loud and clear audio. They also use license free frequencies, frequency hop, so it would be hard for unauthorized people to hear. They are commercial grade, and many schools in my area bought them for use around campus. It might suit your needs, and will open squelch clearly for intended users.

That's fine but with the exception of CB and FRS/GMRS there are no licence-free frequencies in Canada. We have no MURS equivalent up here. I also don't see the need for repeater access since as I understand it communications will be confined to a single building; simplex should work just fine.

The best solution for the OP might be to rent commercial radios from a local provider.

Mike phones using direct (off the tower) might be worth a look

I've used Kenwood Freetalk xls tk-3131. They are GMRS/FRS, uhf naturally, but then can frequency hop and have voice scramble. A nice feature if you are talking about any first aid to a patient over the air. Frequecy hopping, the units change frequency looking for an open frequency when you are talking. Then the units scans and locks onto another frequency. Again nice features when in a crowd. They have ear phone jacks, external hand mics, drop in quick chargers. A real nice unit. Used them in building, going several floors through concrete. DMR would be the next choice up.

GMRS is a good option, but 'outsiders' messing with your comms is a strong likelyhood. You would definitely want some sort of privacy option. I agree that the DTR series radios might be the best (license free) bet... assuming they provide adequate coverage inside the facility. Beyond that... you could get into a single repeater MotoTRBO/DMR setup. 2 timeslots, couple talkgroups on each timeslot. Would likely give more than enough channel capacity... but of course now you are getting into a commercial install with Industry Canada co-ordination required.

All of the commercial radio manufactures make Part 95 compliant gear (4W HTs that can be used for both commercial and GMRS). However, I'm not to understanding of the differences of the Canadian GMRS service when compared to the US service. You'd have to look through the Canadian rules to see if that setup is allowable.

W5PKY said:

All of the commercial radio manufactures make Part 95 compliant gear (4W HTs that can be used for both commercial and GMRS). However, I'm not to understanding of the differences of the Canadian GMRS service when compared to the US service. You'd have to look through the Canadian rules to see if that setup is allowable.

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Canadian GMRS is a licence-free low-power service unlike the US service. Even a
detachable antenna which is quite OK in the US is not acceptable in Canada. Commercial
HTs are sometimes used on GMRS in Canada but just because people do it, doesn't
mean it's legit.

Dave

An option to DTR radios would be the Tri-Square XRS 900MHz frequency-hopping WTs,
which have about the same range as FRS, but are "secure". The cheapest version
had 1000 privacy codes, which like basic privacy on DMR radios is probably enough
for most applications like this. Problem is, the company is out of business, and may or
may not be good source online e.g. FleaBay. Also, they are consumer-grade, OK but
might not stand too much abuse. Perhaps there is another similar low-cost product
out there, am not aware of any though.

Dave

Yet another option though also a bit unlikely (but I'll mention it anyway) is the
Direct Talk feature on some older Motorola iDEN phones, like the i870 (and others).
If you can find a good source of these cheap, including batteries/chargers, this
might work. Again, they're 900MHz spread-spectrum, fairly "secure" in this context,
but fairly short range. This function is phone-phone (or radio-radio?) and does not
use the network.

A local second-hand store was dumping a bunch of these at $3 each but w/o
batteries or chargers, plus they were of unknown condition, so I passed. Would
have been fun to check a pair out.

Dave

Info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOTO_Talk

MDTR Motorola DTR radios.

PACNWDude said:

Motorola DTR radios are digital, fairly short range yet have loud and clear audio. They also use license free frequencies, frequency hop, so it would be hard for unauthorized people to hear. They are commercial grade, and many schools in my area bought them for use around campus. It might suit your needs, and will open squelch clearly for intended users.

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These are allowed in Canada as license free radios provided they have the Industry Canada sticker on them from Motorola. They can be used for personal and business use as well. They are commercial grade, cost about $220-260 USD per radio, but are legal for use in Canada. There is only one repeater I know of made for these, but for comms within about 1 mile diameter, they work well.

Since the Zebra Motorola shuffling they are marketed in Canada as the MDTR series of radios.