Perry County Going Trunked?

Ever since being told that Perry County was checking the availability of VHF frequencies for a new system to replace the existing low band system, I have been periodically checking the FCC website. I checked today and, lo and behold, application has finally been made.

Much to my surprise, it appears that it will be a trunked system. The The Radio Service type is listed as Public Safety Pool, Trunked. Also, the frequencies consist of 3 different Station Classes...FB8 - Centralized Trunk Base, MO8 - Centralized Trunk Mobile and FX1 - Control.

I just sent an e-mail to the Director asking him to confirm whether or not the system will be a non-digital trunked radio system.

I heard back from the Director. He said that, as of now, it will be a conventional system. He said that they applied for the frequencies that way for future possible application as a TRS (trunked radio system). He did seem to indicate that a TRS was not out of the realm of possibilities because he said that final determination would be made based on bids received.

At any rate, the frequencies applied for are:

155.1525
155.2575
158.8575
159.315
150.790
151.025
151.3175
154.0025
154.1975

He originally said that the system would consist of 10 frequencies and there are only 9 listed. A few weeks ago, he told me that they needed to get approval for one of them from an organization that is relatively close and uses that frequency.

ULS Application - Public Safety Pool, Trunked - 0006523013 - PERRY, COUNTY OF

Found the FCC site is pending their application. Just because they applied for a Trunk Frequency list does not mean they are going to use it as such. Juniata County did the same thing for their Ops frequencies just to get a block of frequencies but are using them as Convention freqs.

Going to be keeping an eye on this.

SlipNutz15 said:

ULS Application - Public Safety Pool, Trunked - 0006523013 - PERRY, COUNTY OF

Found the FCC site is pending their application. Just because they applied for a Trunk Frequency list does not mean they are going to use it as such. Juniata County did the same thing for their Ops frequencies just to get a block of frequencies but are using them as Convention freqs.

Going to be keeping an eye on this.

Click to expand...

I will be touching base with him again in a few weeks...after the holidays. I will post any updates here. I think they are still waiting on approval for one frequency. He said they were applying to the FCC for 10 and there were only 9 on that application. I believe he said that they were waiting on one agency in the area that uses that frequency to sign off on it.

If You click on the frequencies tab, and then emissions You will see that it's gonna be P25 Phase 1.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/App...=E&applID=8641913&keyLoc=-1&pageNumToReturn=1

RonnieUSA said:

If You click on the frequencies tab, and then emissions You will see that it's gonna be P25 Phase 1.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/App...=E&applID=8641913&keyLoc=-1&pageNumToReturn=1

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Ronnie, I'm not sure if you read the whole thread or not. In my first post in this thread, I did indicate that the station classes were that of a trunked system. I asked the EMA Director if it was going to be a trunked system. He indicated that it was likely going to be conventional, but they applied that way for future trunking possibilities. That being said, if they WOULD go trunked...it will be analog, not be digital. The county and local departments are not in a financial position to support a P-25 system.

I would think that it's going to be Conventional Simulcast Dispatch and then regional P25 repeater sites. That is the going rate for the systems in the area. Still keeping an eye on this.

That's the main reason I have decided to hold off on getting a new home scanner. I have been planning on purchasing a BCT15X, but not until It becomes known what exactly what the new system will be. I can see a simulcast system being useful because they have always seemed to have coverage issues. But what is the advantage in going with P25 repeater sites? Stronger signals?


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The advantage of using digital is signal compensation. If you listen to an analog system, as the user gets farther away from the tower the signal gets weaker and more staticy. With digital, a user at the same distance will sound crystal clear. As long as the signal reaches the tower, the tower rebuilds the signal, if degraded, and, if it's a repeater, rebroadcasts the signal out at max power (of the tower) and at same clarity as if you were standing right next to the user (portable or mobile).

P25 can also be used in simplex mode with the same error correction radio to radio or radio to county.

You do NOT want a BCD15X scanner. It does not do any digital signal decoding and you would only be able to pick up analog signals (mostly dispatch channels because pagers cannot decode digital signals).

Juniata County has P25 UHF regional repeaters and we've tested various places to see if they can hit distant repeaters and the results were actually pretty impressive. There was a user on a portable at Delaware Twp. Fire Dept. that was talking to the repeater tower in Black Log at the south end of the county to another user in Huntingdon County.

I suggest you purchase a P25 Digital Trunking scanner since Perry is surrounded by P25 systems as it is. Dauphin is UHF P25 Trunk, Franklin is UHF P25 Trunk, Juniata has P25 conventional repeaters and I'm guessing Perry will empliment a P25 system, too.

dmg1969 has an HP-1 I believe. So it may now be him deciding whether he needs P25 Phase II capability or not if he adds a scanner.
One other "advantage" to digital systems: They are easily encryption-capable (unfortunately).

@popnokick is correct. Dauphin and Franklin encrypts their Law Enforcement TalkGroups and Dauphin also encrypts their EMS Tac TalkGroups. The Dispatch TalkGroups are still unencrypted to the best of my knowledge because, I believe, they cross patch them with pager channels; which cannot be digital.

I don't know any Phase II systems around but if you have the money for a new scanner that handles Phase II, go fo it.

SlipNutz15 said:

@popnokick is correct. Dauphin and Franklin encrypts their Law Enforcement TalkGroups and Dauphin also encrypts their EMS Tac TalkGroups. The Dispatch TalkGroups are still unencrypted to the best of my knowledge because, I believe, they cross patch them with pager channels; which cannot be digital.

I don't know any Phase II systems around but if you have the money for a new scanner that handles Phase II, go fo it.

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Berks is the only new system functioning as Phase 2 right now in PA.

Philly is capable, but will be Phase 1 until they finish buying/programming new radios.

The state's system will be moving over to a P25 platform from OpenSky. Considering the amount of sites they have and the need for available spectrum (which is limited in some areas), I would imagine they'll go Phase 2 for increased efficiency of spectrum use. Right now, the OpenSky provides 2 slot or 4 slot TDMA with no dedicated control channel. Many sites only have one or two frequencies licensed on them. Since P25 has a dedicated control channel, they almost need to be Phase 2 for capacity unless they license more frequencies at some sites. Although, it looks like PA is in the process of gobbling up available VHF spectrum in the central and western (more rural) areas of the state (as part of a VHF/700/800 hybrid option) so the limited 800MHz channels at some sites may end up not being an issue. We'll need to wait and see for a bit there to determine what, exactly, is going to happen.

Funny I was just talking to the director of a local PSAP about the state going P25 and apparently it's not happening. Harris has designed a tri-band radio that is going to work OpenSky, VHF and UHF for their overlay and its some type of upgrade on the regular OpenSky system that they aren't leaving OpenSky anymore. I don't want to crash his thread with this. We can move this discussion to the PA system thread.

popnokick said:

dmg1969 has an HP-1 I believe. So it may now be him deciding whether he needs P25 Phase II capability or not if he adds a scanner.
One other "advantage" to digital systems: They are easily encryption-capable (unfortunately).

Click to expand...

Correct. I do have an HP-1. That is my mobile scanner. At home, I have a BC355N and I was looking to upgrade to the BCT15X IF...and only if Perry was going to either a conventional VHF or analog trunking system. I'm just going to wait and see what they end up with and then decide on the new scanner.


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I was looking over the emissions designators for the frequencies applied for - they will either be P25 Phase 1 or Phase 2 digital. There are no analog emissions listed.

I really don't see that happening. I was originally told that the system would likely be a conventional VHF analog system with possible future trunking applications. I just cannot see a poorer county with all volunteer fire and EMS and only two active police departments going with a digital system.

I emailed the director for an update, but haven't heard back yet. I did see in the minutes of the latest county commissioners meeting that the commissioners passed a motion to "table the Agreement with Mission Critical Partners for a Professional Services Agreement until further review for a new phone system for 911". I'm not sure what that means other than they need to upgrade the phone system for whatever radio system they have planned.

I could be wrong and maybe they will use digital repeaters. Time will tell.

I e-mailed the Director again as a follow-up to my e-mail last week that went unanswered and added a question about the emission designators.

He replied first by saying that, although the commissioners tabled the agreement with Mission Critical Partners at the last meeting, they approved it this past Monday. They can continue with the project and request bids.

Additionally, he did indicate that the Federal Government requires that all new radios under the grant to be P-25. I replied asking if that just required the radios to be P-25 capable or if it required the system itself to be P-25. I also asked if it was the latter, would that mean a fully P-25 system or a system like you (slipnutz) described...conventional with digital repeaters. His reply was simply "To my knowledge, it can do both".

So, I guess we have to wait until we see specifically what they are requesting bids on.

I would guess narrowband P25 either conventional or trunked system would meet FCC requirements. I don't think they can force trunked systems just digital. My guess is they'll do simulcast dispatch and regional repeater sites but I guess we will have to wait to see. Thanks for the update.

Just talked to my friend who has pretty good connections to Perry County and it sounds like the big snag going on over there now is none of the departments have the money to purchase the digital radios and no one has applied for any type of radio grants yet. Time will tell where this system goes (or doesn't go).