Antenna ?

ccriley6 · Nov 6, 2014

been looking at magnetic mount antennas. can someone explain the difference in wattage on antennas?
Is that just a wattage rating per say? Assuming it means an antenna is capable of handling a X amnt of watts...
For instance, is a wilson 5000 better than lil' will when using a cobra 29 ?
Also seen some talk about hustler.......i think the one i seen was a 100w antenna.
TIA

WA0CBW · Nov 6, 2014

It supposedly means how much power can be applied to the antenna before the antenna becomes damaged but can be part of the the smoke and mirrors of the more power it can handle the better it is.
BB

ccriley6 · Nov 6, 2014

Thanks..
Guess the best question is, With a cobra 29 classic ( stock radio) which antenna would be better?

W8RMH · Nov 6, 2014

The radio make and model has nothing to do with the antenna. Buy the most expensive antenna you can afford.

I don't think the wattage rating has anything to do with the antenna's performance or quality.

Even though I use mag mounts for scanner listening I never liked them for CB or HAM use.

The Antenna Farm has a nice selection of antennas.

mmckenna · Nov 6, 2014

ccriley6 said:
Thanks..
Guess the best question is, With a cobra 29 classic ( stock radio) which antenna would be better?

What sort of vehicle are you mounting this on?
What's your budget?
What is your skill level?

It's been many years since I was on CB. Back when I was I installed a lot of Larsen NMO-27's, permanent mount on top of SUV's and pickups. They worked very well, stood up to abuse and looked professional.

A couple of things about antennas:
There is no "magic". Antennas are governed by the laws of physics, and there isn't any way around that. Beware of any manufacturer that claims they have some secret to make their antennas work better than others.
Most antenna designs require a ground plane underneath them. This part needs to be taken seriously, unfortunately most people ignore it.
You can buy the most expensive radio out there, but if you do a crappy install job of a crappy antenna, the radio won't work well. Your antenna is the most important part of the system.
Cheap coaxial cable will result in poor performance.

Since most antenna designs require a good ground plane under them to work properly, the ideal location for the antenna is smack in the center of the vehicle roof. Anything else is a compromise and performance will suffer. Mounting the antenna off to one side, bumper, etc. will result in a directional radiation pattern. That will result in the antenna working better in some directions, worse in others. Mounting antennas directly behind truck cabs will also negatively affect performance.

Often CB'ers will claim their antennas will "talk for miles". Take this with a grain of salt. Antenna performance works both ways, transmit and receive. Antennas on both ends of the transmission make a lot of difference.

ccriley6 · Nov 7, 2014

mmckenna said:
What sort of vehicle are you mounting this on?
What's your budget?
What is your skill level?

It's been many years since I was on CB. Back when I was I installed a lot of Larsen NMO-27's, permanent mount on top of SUV's and pickups. They worked very well, stood up to abuse and looked professional.

A couple of things about antennas:
There is no "magic". Antennas are governed by the laws of physics, and there isn't any way around that. Beware of any manufacturer that claims they have some secret to make their antennas work better than others.
Most antenna designs require a ground plane underneath them. This part needs to be taken seriously, unfortunately most people ignore it.
You can buy the most expensive radio out there, but if you do a crappy install job of a crappy antenna, the radio won't work well. Your antenna is the most important part of the system.
Cheap coaxial cable will result in poor performance.

Since most antenna designs require a good ground plane under them to work properly, the ideal location for the antenna is smack in the center of the vehicle roof. Anything else is a compromise and performance will suffer. Mounting the antenna off to one side, bumper, etc. will result in a directional radiation pattern. That will result in the antenna working better in some directions, worse in others. Mounting antennas directly behind truck cabs will also negatively affect performance.

Often CB'ers will claim their antennas will "talk for miles". Take this with a grain of salt. Antenna performance works both ways, transmit and receive. Antennas on both ends of the transmission make a lot of difference.

Im currently running a firestik 4' antenna behind the cab of my ext. cab pickup truck. Using astatic mini 8 coax. Its mounted on the side of my toolbox between my cab and toolbox. I have an 8awg ground wire from the mount to the truck frame.My swr according to the built in meter on my cobra is 1.4 on channels 1,20,&40. Im just wanting to get the best i can out of my setup..... Budget would be around the $100 mark but why spend that if a $35 li' will mag mount is as good as a $100 wilson 5000......?
My skill level is newb....LOL.

mmckenna · Nov 7, 2014

OK, that's a good start.

As for the ground wire to the frame, that's a great DC ground, but won't help much for an RF ground.
1.4:1 SWR ain't bad, but SWR isn't the only thing you need to be concerned about. Radiation pattern is important to consider. Placing the antenna between the cab and the toolbox will affect that pattern, causing the RF energy to not go equally in all directions.

You could probably improve performance with your existing setup by relocating the antenna. Center of the toolbox, on the back, away from the cab, will probably improve things. A 4 foot antenna is a good choice, as it gets some of the antenna above the cab roof.

I'm still a strong believer in permanent mount antennas in the center of the cab. An NMO mount right in the middle of the cab roof with an NMO-27 properly tuned will very likely outperform what you have. It could be done for less than $100, but requires a lot more work. I'm not a fan of mag mounts, but they do work.

I wouldn't spend $100 on a Wilson antenna, no matter what anyone said. Like I said above, there is no magic antenna pixy dust. A quality base loaded permanent mount antenna, properly installed, will work. Mag mount as a second choice.

mmckenna · Nov 7, 2014

This was always my preferred setup:

$34.95, Larsen NMO-27 http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmo27c-699.html

$22.95, Larsen NMO permanent mount with installed PL-259 connector to match your CB:
http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmokhfudpli-1867.html

If you really need to do magnetic mount:
$29.95, Larsen NMO magnetic mount with installed PL-259:
http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmommrpl-1097.html

When it comes to antennas, comparing them is pretty easy. If running legal power, the size of the base coil isn't going to be an issue. The Larsen is rated to 200 watts, and will have no problems with the 4 watts from your CB. The antenna length is important and must be adjusted for frequency, but the length also has to do with the overall design. Comparing a 49 inch tall Larsen to a 49 inch tall Wilson will show similar performance. Spending more won't improve things if you are looking at quality antennas.

I installed a lot of those Larsen antennas over the years, and never once had an issue with them. Most of those were on top of full size pickups or SUVs and would hit parking garages or tree branches and not suffer an ill effects. One of the nice things about them is they look professional. They don't look like CB antennas, they look like professional antennas. The other benefit to them is that they use the standard NMO mount. NMO's are about as standard as you can get for quality antennas. You can swap the CB antenna out with antennas for just about anything, so if you decide to get into other parts of the hobby, you'll be good to go.
The other nice thing about the above antenna is you can easily replace parts if they ever get damaged. Purchasing replacement whips or coils is easy to do. Not sure you can do that with the consumer grade CB antennas.

They might cost a bit more, but it's a good investment.

freebird63 · Nov 8, 2014

Can't beat a 102" SS whip. If I can't run one in my rig I won't put a radio in it.

ccriley6 · Nov 9, 2014

mmckenna said:
This was always my preferred setup:

$34.95, Larsen NMO-27 http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmo27c-699.html

$22.95, Larsen NMO permanent mount with installed PL-259 connector to match your CB:
http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmokhfudpli-1867.html

If you really need to do magnetic mount:
$29.95, Larsen NMO magnetic mount with installed PL-259:
http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmommrpl-1097.html

When it comes to antennas, comparing them is pretty easy. If running legal power, the size of the base coil isn't going to be an issue. The Larsen is rated to 200 watts, and will have no problems with the 4 watts from your CB. The antenna length is important and must be adjusted for frequency, but the length also has to do with the overall design. Comparing a 49 inch tall Larsen to a 49 inch tall Wilson will show similar performance. Spending more won't improve things if you are looking at quality antennas.

I installed a lot of those Larsen antennas over the years, and never once had an issue with them. Most of those were on top of full size pickups or SUVs and would hit parking garages or tree branches and not suffer an ill effects. One of the nice things about them is they look professional. They don't look like CB antennas, they look like professional antennas. The other benefit to them is that they use the standard NMO mount. NMO's are about as standard as you can get for quality antennas. You can swap the CB antenna out with antennas for just about anything, so if you decide to get into other parts of the hobby, you'll be good to go.
The other nice thing about the above antenna is you can easily replace parts if they ever get damaged. Purchasing replacement whips or coils is easy to do. Not sure you can do that with the consumer grade CB antennas.

They might cost a bit more, but it's a good investment.

ive about talked myself into a permanent roof mount.
Is the larson able to be unscrewed off when going into a garage?
been looking at a wilson 5000 roof mount.

JayMojave · Nov 9, 2014

Hello ccriler6: Both the Larson and Wilson are good antennas. I have used both with good success.

The Wilson 1000 or 5000 have a quick disconnect that makes it easy to disconnect and install. I am sure the Larson has some sort of swivel type mount that would allow a quick way to lay the antenna over.

I would go for the Wilson 5000 as they are made quit well, I have taken them apart. The number on the Wilson 1000 or 5000 surly can not be a power rating, but a model number. The Larson and Wilson antennas can be modified to have more power by replacing the cheap RG58C Coax with either RG142 (has a solid spring steel silver plated center wire, makes it easy to solder on connectors) or RG400 ( has a stranded silver plated wires as the center wire) either coax will handle more power, as they use a Teflon $$$ insulator allowing a much higher voltage rating. And these coaxes are bullet proof.

I agree with the advice there, the antenna between the tool box and cab is not a good antenna installation. The antenna needs to be on top of the tool box aft, or on top of the cab. Good luck

Jay in the Mojave

mmckenna · Nov 9, 2014

The Larsen NMO-27 uses the standard NMO mount, so all you have to do is unscrew the base from the mount. That will just leave the NMO base on the rooftop, which will be less than 1/4 inch high. If you are going to do this long term, purchase an NMO rain cap. It'll thread over the top of the mount to protect it.

The NMO-27 doesn't have a fold over mount. You can, alternatively, unscrew just the whip from the coil.

Project25_MASTR · Nov 9, 2014

I've ran many different cb antennas over the years. I've noticed one thing about all of them...they won't handle physical abuse well. One of my favorite hf mount cb antennas is a 5/8 wave antenna from tram. I'd stay away from 108" whips. Anywhere you mount them, they will not have an ideal radiation pattern due to the simple fact, they just aren't practical size wise.

I'd go with a roof mounted Larsen or laird low band antenna for the 27 MHz range. Low stress and will take a beating (you could drive into a parking garage with it up and it would be okay).

ind224 · Nov 9, 2014

I also recommend the Wilson 5000. Unlike a K40 with disassembly almost impossible, you can even take a mag Wilson and mount it sans magnet.
I'm using the Wilson magnet on an RS 20-032 after a few high speed runs had it bouncing on the highway shattering the magnet. At one time I could get new foil for the bottom locally. The hard mounted Wilson had replacement RG8 going to it.

mmckenna · Nov 9, 2014

Never had an issue with the Larsen and parking garages/tree branches. The whips are really flexible. If that is a major concern, you can order the NMO-27 with a spring at the base. You can even order the spring on its own and install it yourself.

A properly installed NMO mount will stand up to a lot of abuse. Its one of the many reason they are used almost exclusively in the land mobile and public safety markets. Of course going with a consumer grade antenna will probably work just fine if that is all you are looking for.

Project25_MASTR · Nov 9, 2014

mmckenna said:
Never had an issue with the Larsen and parking garages/tree branches. The whips are really flexible. If that is a major concern, you can order the NMO-27 with a spring at the base. You can even order the spring on its own and install it yourself.

A properly installed NMO mount will stand up to a lot of abuse. Its one of the many reason they are used almost exclusively in the land mobile and public safety markets. Of course going with a consumer grade antenna will probably work just fine if that is all you are looking for.

Another point to add with NMO. Its a dual seal minimum system. One that goes around and seals off against the meal surface of the roof and then another that encapsulates that seal.

It's also a lower loss connection compared to the common methods for coaxial termination that you see on CB's.

ccriley6 · Nov 9, 2014

thanks everyone...
i bought a wilson 5000 roof mount off ebay today.
whats the best way to find the "sweet spot" on top of the cab?

mmckenna · Nov 9, 2014

ccriley6 said:
thanks everyone...
i bought a wilson 5000 roof mount off ebay today.
whats the best way to find the "sweet spot" on top of the cab?

"Sweet Spot" is in the middle, both front/back and left/right. That gives you the most ground plane around the antenna. Moving it off to one side, or forward/rearward will skew the pattern of the antenna.

Antenna ?

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