TPS question...Im puzzled.

fullspectrum · Nov 12, 2014

Hey guys. I'm puzzled. It's been a while since I've had my scanner out (a long while lol). I Have a Uniden bearcat trunk tracker II and I was looking through the forums here and it seemed that Toronto police service had gone to the new digital P25 system right? But to my surprise I can still hear all the talk groups on the Bell Fleet net trunked system...so my question is why is this still working if they've gone over to P 25? Can anybody enlighten me on this? I thought TPS has gone all digital?

Forts · Nov 12, 2014

Well, for starters... TPS doesn't use Fleetnet. Two completely different systems, and different bands. TPS is in the process of building out their new P25 system but have not swung everyone over to it as of yet as it's still a work in progress. Fleetnet is used by OPP, MOH, MTO, MNR etc etc. Nothing at all to do with GTA public safety agencies.

torontokris · Nov 12, 2014

Your hearing the TPS analog system.
You won't hear the TPS P25 system (still in testing) or OPP with your scanner. You'd need a new digital scanner.

fullspectrum · Nov 12, 2014

Thanks for the input guys. I was searching the forums and I thought that the TPS was only on the digital system now. Any idea if they will be encrypting the new digital system? And is York region police encrypted also?
I'm planning on upgrading to a newer digital handheld if things stay un-encrypted, can you guys recommend any models that I could listen to Toronto and York Region Police with? I kinda would like to stick to Uniden but I'm open to suggestions. I will be going to either Radioworld or Durham radio.

Sorry for all the questions...been out of the hobby for a few years raising my family...

Forts · Nov 12, 2014

York and Peel police are now full time encrypted. Fire on the York system is partially encrypted, but there seems to be some discussion that it might go back to being in the clear. As for what TPS will do is still unclear at this point, but I would bet heavy on the 'will be encrypted' camp.

fullspectrum · Nov 12, 2014

Forts said:
York and Peel police are now full time encrypted. Fire on the York system is partially encrypted, but there seems to be some discussion that it might go back to being in the clear. As for what TPS will do is still unclear at this point, but I would bet heavy on the 'will be encrypted' camp.

So what we are seeing now is the end of the scanning hobby (with regard to emergency services)? I always assumed that the scanner technology would keep up with new systems as they upgraded them including encryption. Thats a bummer...after 20 years of listening to scanners. Is there any hope for a scanner that can decode encryted frequencies? Is it even worth it to upgrade to a digital scanner? What will be left to listen to thats exciting?

Forts · Nov 12, 2014

Is it the end? Maybe not the end, but certainly severely limited.

As far as a scanner that will decode encrypted channels.... never. Afterall, what would the point of encrypting be if a scanner could simply decrypt it? Not to mention that most agencies these days are using AES which cannot be brute forced using the technology currently at our disposal.

What will be left to listen to that's exciting? That's obviously highly variable from person to person. Some people like listening to trains, some people like aviation stuff. But it's a safe bet that most police agencies will be gone.

fullspectrum · Nov 12, 2014

Forts said:
Is it the end? Maybe not the end, but certainly severely limited.

As far as a scanner that will decode encrypted channels.... never. Afterall, what would the point of encrypting be if a scanner could simply decrypt it? Not to mention that most agencies these days are using AES which cannot be brute forced using the technology currently at our disposal.

What will be left to listen to that's exciting? That's obviously highly variable from person to person. Some people like listening to trains, some people like aviation stuff. But it's a safe bet that most police agencies will be gone.

Wow that sucks...what do you think the prognosis is for fire and ambulance?

fullspectrum · Nov 12, 2014

What system is the York Region EMS using now? Are they coupled into the same new p25 system as York Region Fire and Police?

fullspectrum · Nov 12, 2014

mciupa said:

Check out Bell FleetNet Zone 1

Code:

MOH Georgian CACC Talkgroups 

DEC 	HEX 	Mode  	Alpha Tag	Description	Tag  
36016	8cb	A	GEO CACC	CACC 	EMS Dispatch 
36032	8cc	A	GEO SIMCOE N	Simcoe North 	EMS Dispatch 
36160	8d4	A	GEO SIM S	Simcoe South 	EMS Dispatch 
[COLOR="Red"]36048	8cd	A	GEO YORK N	York North 	EMS Dispatch 
36064	8ce	A	GEO YORK S	York South 	EMS Dispatch [/COLOR]
36080	8cf	A	GEO TAC 1	Tactical 1 	EMS-Tac 
36096	8d0	A	GEO TAC 2	Tactical 2 	EMS-Tac 
36112	8d1	A	GEO TAC 3	Tactical 3 	EMS-Tac 
36128	8d2	A	GEO TAC 4	Tactical 4 	EMS-Tac 
36144	8d3	A	GEO TAC 5	Tactical 5 	EMS-Tac

I don't think they have anything listenable on the new P25 system.

Cool, thanks alot. Although I have been scanning off and on for about 20 years, I'm still very much a newbie with a lot of all this. I'm kinda on and off with this hobby. When I had a ton of time in my early 20's I was big into it.

It was so much easier back then. Punch one 142.000ish number for each Toronto Police division in the scanner and you were set. I had the Haruteq scanner book. I used to love hearing the calls come though live to the dispatcher and then they would repeat it to the units. 41 and 42 Division were our favorites.

.

mciupa · Nov 12, 2014

fullspectrum said:
Cool, thanks alot. Although I have been scanning off and on for about 20 years, I'm still very much a newbie with a lot of all this. I'm kinda on and off with this hobby. When I had a ton of time in my early 20's I was big into it.

It was so much easier back then. Punch one 142.000ish number for each Toronto Police division in the scanner and you were set. I had the Haruteq scanner book. I used to love hearing the calls come though live to the dispatcher and then they would repeat it to the units. 41 and 42 Division were our favorites.

You sound like your describing me in 1986, except it was 31 Div. and North York Fire :lol:

fullspectrum · Nov 12, 2014

mciupa said:
You sound like your describing me in 1986, except it was 31 Div. and North York Fire :lol:

LOL...I lived in the 32 Division boundaries but after listening to all the divisions we found most active divisions were 41 and 42 scarborough, plus my buddy lived there so we had a home base. We had a lot of fun and we pushed the limits a bit....lol.

Scarborough was good because there were lots of parking lots to observe the action safely from across the street. Sometimes we would even beat the cops to the scene of the crime! Very dangerous indeed. I was young and stupid(er) back then.

One time, my buddy who liked to push the limits walked into a donut shop that a cop was in getting coffee. He walked right up next to him with the scanner on his belt. Sure enough the dispatcher started chirping calls off and the cop was looking around for his radio...lol.... then he realized he had no portable radio..it was priceless. Then he noticed the scanner.

I guess he didn't know too much about scanners and the scanning hobby. After some explaining that we were just hobbyists of scanning he left. What the hell were we thinking! LOL

.

bigcam406 · Nov 12, 2014

i remember quite a few years ago when Durham Regional Police were in the clear,one night myself and a bud were listening in my car at our local Timmies.we heard a call come over about a bne that was happening up the street at a jewellery store.we then saw a guy ride buy on his 10 speed with a backpack in a hurry.when they arrived,they found bike tire tracks in the snow(it was December).we called them to report what we saw,and they sent a car over...and he searched my car.lol.he thought we were trying to throw them off.we gave them a description,and wasnt 20 mins later they caught the guy.all ended well.getting back on topic,Fleetnet would be your best bet if you want EMS in the clear for now.we will have to wait and see what the others(York and Toronto) are going to have in the clear.my best advice is to purchase a digital scanner that is phase 2 capable.

davepm · Nov 13, 2014

TPS encrypted

I am in the same boat and love to scan Police and fire. I am afraid it does not look good. I googled the TPS business plan and it is in black and white. A fully encrypted emergency system that will incorporate police, fire, and EMS. This is to be fully implemented before 2016. I understand it is in test in 14 Division as we speak. Lets hope they have a change of heart and leave some of it open.

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/brochures/2014-2016_business_plan.pdf

fullspectrum · Nov 13, 2014

@bigcam406 that's a good story lol.

I got another funny one. One time we were watching undercover cops take down some guys for some drug charges. We parked at the gas station next to the lot where the action was. Just then a marked cruiser rolled in next to us. My buddy was standing out of the car watching and the cop said "you guys get this wrapped up nice n easy?" My buddy just said "yeah it went down without incident." LOL The cop smiled, nodded and drove away. Too funny!

It was good I was there to restrain my friend or he might have crossed the line too much and got in trouble. LOL

@davepm Thanks for the info. Sad to hear it's all going away...

fullspectrum · Nov 13, 2014

Hey guys Im trying to program my Uniden 245xlt for York Region MInistry of Health EMS for Fleetnet but having troubles. I entered in all the frequencies in a trunking bank under E2-Hi and hit scan and it got nothing. I tried entering in a base frequency and it still didnt work. What am I doing wrong here?

Forts · Nov 13, 2014

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the 245xlt doesn't do VHF trunking.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

fullspectrum · Nov 13, 2014

Forts said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the 245xlt doesn't do VHF trunking.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Right from my manual:

E2 Hi. (Type II VHF 137-174 MHz)

Isn't this the correct trunking option for Fleetnet?

.

Forts · Nov 13, 2014

Huh. Weird. I was looking at a PDF that said only UHF and 800. OK, that's good news! You said you put in a base frequency... Did you also put in the step and offset?

fullspectrum · Nov 13, 2014

Forts said:
Huh. Weird. I was looking at a PDF that said only UHF and 800. OK, that's good news! You said you put in a base frequency... Did you also put in the step and offset?

After I put the proper frequencies in I hit the data button and put a base in and hit enter. Then the offset was automatically 50. I tried to change it but it said error. These are base and offset from the radioreference page:

Custom Frequency Tables

Base Spacing Offset
141.01500 15.0 380
151.73000 15.0 579
154.32000 15.0 632

Do I have to enter all of these? If so not sure how to do it.

TPS question...Im puzzled.

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