Examiner.com article on DMR / CS-700
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But the article was informative and accurate, regardless of your dislike for Examiner.com, right?
Not really. It reads like a press release, and it's not taking amateur radio by storm.
The CS-700 and DMR are very popular here in the Northeast, so it's a little storm (big wind gust?) Besides, this isn't the New York Times, it's Internet journalism, where fact and opinion often find themselves mingled in something called "blogging."
Either way, this article received more than 800 hits in the first two days - a nice piece of freelance pocket change, one of my most lucrative to date.
Think you can write better articles? Be my guest. I'll try not to be an acerbic couch critic when I read them.
Either way, this article received more than 800 hits in the first two days - a nice piece of freelance pocket change, one of my most lucrative to date.
Think you can write better articles? Be my guest. I'll try not to be an acerbic couch critic when I read them.
Ah, I suspected as much.
I have no problem with that, btw, but I think readers should be aware that Examiner.com is NOT a reputable news outlet. It seems to frequently portray itself as one, particularly when "blogs" get posted to the likes of the Yahoo News front page in the guise of journalism. Because anyone can publish an article on Examiner.com without proper research, it's credibility has suffered severely among the more well informed.
It really wasn't my intention to be critical of your writing. I was just pointing out the reality of the venue.
I've published a few articles and white papers over the years. I tend to be rather picky about where I send my work. I don't think about how many people have read it, I think about who...
If your intent is to publish white paper research studies, that's fine. If you're writing to draw Internet readership, it's another story. Incidentally, I received a TOS violation for my last posting, so I better stay on topic from now on.
It's taking the hobby by storm in the KC area. I can think of at least six repeaters that have gone up recently.
DMR
DMR and amatuer radio are a winning combination! no longer will geeky amatuer radio operators be tied to archaic morse code paddles when they need to send emergency messages. Our airwaves will be cleared of unnecessary chatter as digital operators will instantly connect to each other without calling CQ.
DMR and amatuer radio are a winning combination! no longer will geeky amatuer radio operators be tied to archaic morse code paddles when they need to send emergency messages. Our airwaves will be cleared of unnecessary chatter as digital operators will instantly connect to each other without calling CQ.
Wait what? What do you mean there are no more dinosaurs left in this world? ( think CW need to use here )
LOL...I too am embracing this new DMR Ham world. So far, it IS a storm of sorts. Here in the northeast, as has already been suggested, DMR is taking over the area. I love the fact that with a simple inexpensive portable like the CS700, you could hear and / or communicate with someone across the state or across the country, like if they are sitting right next to you! It has brought a new life and a new perspective to Ham radio in my opinion.
Manny
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They are wrong, wrong, wrong. DMR is not gaining users at a greater pace than D-Star. The facts opposite, and are easy to find if you go to trusted sites that tell the truth and don't fabricate propaganda. DMR is a closed system, and restrictive in many ways. It is assembled by Motorola hams, and using equipment that was retired from commercial use. Not all, but most. Further more, many DMR repeaters require prior authorization from the owner before you can use it. The Color Codes, what other technologies call PLL, or sub audible tones, are not published for many DMR repeaters. Thew same with DMR channels, and talk groups. You have to get them when you register for access. Now there is the DMR MARC group, which ties many DMR repeaters together. But when I was on DMR North America and heard nothing for a while, I asked for a radio check for my new CS700, and got a reply from a few hams, and one that was local to me started to talk to me, then another ham got in and told us to get off of of North America and take it local. We did that and talked for a while. The contrast to DMR with D-Star is that when I get on a reflector, I don't need permission, and I can talk to anyone in the world, not just North America. I have had QSO's with Japan, Netherlands, all over the UK, and US. DMR does have very good audio, I am not shooting DMR down, but I am criticizing its role in Amateur radio as not being Amateur radio friendly. How the FCC ever allowed it is beyond my understanding. All the digital modes might be isolating hams from each other, but one thing is clear, D-Star has been around a long time, and it is not stagnant. Scores of engineers/hams are building alternative ways for hams to get on D-Star without buying a D-Star radio. There is one attempt to do the same with DMR that I know of, and that was a recent development. D-Star is Ham friendly, and a lot of fun. Nobody has gotten into D-Star, and turned around and gone to DMR, or Fusion, or P25, but many of the DMR, Fusion, and P25 hams have paid for a way to get on D-Star, or have gotten rid of their DMR, Fusion, or P25 radio and bought a D-Star radio
Check out the D-Star HF net, and there is also a D-Star picture net, yes, you can send text, and pictures from an Android device connected to your D-Star radio. In the case of an ID-5100, it happens with Blue Tooth, but others use a USB cable. They meet on a frequency and send pictures out to everyone who is on that same frequency with the correct setup to receive it,.
So I made an informed choice to buy D-Star, and I bought a DMR radio to see what the appeal was, and I now know that D-Star was the right choice for too many reasons to put into words. Although I tried.
Check out the D-Star HF net, and there is also a D-Star picture net, yes, you can send text, and pictures from an Android device connected to your D-Star radio. In the case of an ID-5100, it happens with Blue Tooth, but others use a USB cable. They meet on a frequency and send pictures out to everyone who is on that same frequency with the correct setup to receive it,.
So I made an informed choice to buy D-Star, and I bought a DMR radio to see what the appeal was, and I now know that D-Star was the right choice for too many reasons to put into words. Although I tried.
I guess it depends on the area. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, DMR is certainly gaining traction. Last March, I had zero line of site repeaters and now have five line of site repeaters I can use. On the other hand, D-Star has been reduced to one or two repeaters. In the Los Angeles area, they had just one DMR repeater last September when I visited and now have three high level repeaters. In just four months time, they managed to put up three new high level DMR repeaters, so it is certainly growing there as well.
Here in California, all our DMR repeaters are open. See CAL DMR REPEATERS and click on each bubble. They will list all the information you need to program your radio.
All DMR repeaters who wish to be linked to DMR-MARC have to be Motorola. They have to use repeaters that supports IP Site Connect, which is proprietary to Motorola. To talk on the repeaters, one can use any DMR capable radio.
With DMR, there are only two time slots and a certain number of talk groups. Some of these talk groups are always on and some are on demand or PTT. For those always on talk groups, these repeaters are activated whenever there is activity. Rag chewing or long QSOs on North America is not recommended because it is keying up hundreds of repeaters around North America. There is no need to key up hundreds of repeaters when both users are using the same repeater. That is why there is a local talk group for this purpose. If one needs to rag chew or have a longer QSO, make contact on North America then switch to a PTT talk group like TAC 310 or whatever PTT talk group is available to both parties.
Use the Worldwide talk group to make contact with people worldwide. There are many users in Europe and Asia that have DMR radios. If you need to have a longer QSO, move over to a PTT talk group so you don't tie up thousands of repeaters worldwide for two people talking.
D-Star was created for the ham community. DMR was a commercial protocol that was adapted for ham radio use. Users must keep this in mind when comparing the two.
Here in California, all our DMR repeaters are open. See CAL DMR REPEATERS and click on each bubble. They will list all the information you need to program your radio.
All DMR repeaters who wish to be linked to DMR-MARC have to be Motorola. They have to use repeaters that supports IP Site Connect, which is proprietary to Motorola. To talk on the repeaters, one can use any DMR capable radio.
With DMR, there are only two time slots and a certain number of talk groups. Some of these talk groups are always on and some are on demand or PTT. For those always on talk groups, these repeaters are activated whenever there is activity. Rag chewing or long QSOs on North America is not recommended because it is keying up hundreds of repeaters around North America. There is no need to key up hundreds of repeaters when both users are using the same repeater. That is why there is a local talk group for this purpose. If one needs to rag chew or have a longer QSO, make contact on North America then switch to a PTT talk group like TAC 310 or whatever PTT talk group is available to both parties.
Use the Worldwide talk group to make contact with people worldwide. There are many users in Europe and Asia that have DMR radios. If you need to have a longer QSO, move over to a PTT talk group so you don't tie up thousands of repeaters worldwide for two people talking.
D-Star was created for the ham community. DMR was a commercial protocol that was adapted for ham radio use. Users must keep this in mind when comparing the two.
Not to mention as hard as DMR is to learn and use D-Star is much worse. Plus I much prefer commercial equipment over "Ham" equipment for talking on. Many seem to from what I've seen.
I want to put my channels in and then press the talk button. Not get a blazing headache trying to figure out how to get a channel to talk on each and every time I want to which is D-Star.
From everything I've read since I became interested in digital a year or so ago D-Star is a dying mode or at best stagnant. DMR is expanding at a huge rate. Motorola is a great radio and so are the CS ones.
I guess its each to his own but to try and flog a dead horse in order to try and save a bad mode seems wrong.
My 2 cents FWIW
I want to put my channels in and then press the talk button. Not get a blazing headache trying to figure out how to get a channel to talk on each and every time I want to which is D-Star.
From everything I've read since I became interested in digital a year or so ago D-Star is a dying mode or at best stagnant. DMR is expanding at a huge rate. Motorola is a great radio and so are the CS ones.
I guess its each to his own but to try and flog a dead horse in order to try and save a bad mode seems wrong.
My 2 cents FWIW
Wrong on D-Star dying. It might be dying in your area, but it is expanding in others. DMR radios require complex programming, but my D-Star radio was programmed by RT Systems using the D-Star calculator. That got me on track fast, and I learned more as I used it. Many DMR repeaters make hams ask permission before they are welcome to use them. Sure, the members of MARC are all connected and don't require more than a radio ID to be in the system. I don't see D-Star going away, and at the same time, I don't see DMR going away. I don't know what Fusion is doing, but the P25 systems are likely to be replaced with DMR at some point in the future. Amateur radio didn't really need all these digital modes to seperate the Amateur operators from each other.
My DMR radiuo is programmed, and I did some of it myself. I still don't know what to do with it besides talk on the local DMR repeater, or North Amaerica. In either case, the radio sits here scanning and I don't hear anyone on North America more than once in a day, and the local DMR site says silent all day.
If I want to talk to anyone in the world, I am welcome to bring up any reflector in the world, and talk. Nobody is going to tell me to stop like they do when you are on North America. I understand that North Amaerica is a lot of systems being keyed, but then how do you access London, or any other country you want to speak with? When you do, will someone come on the frequency and tell you to stop and go to a local repeater? That's not possible, and still carry on your QSO with London. I understand a lot about D-Star as far as what I am allowed to do with it, and I can say that my experience with DMR has not been so friendly so far.
Oh, and where are the talk groups identified so they can be programmed in to my radio? How long will it take me to figure that out once I get the talk groups. D-Star is much easier to understand.
My DMR radiuo is programmed, and I did some of it myself. I still don't know what to do with it besides talk on the local DMR repeater, or North Amaerica. In either case, the radio sits here scanning and I don't hear anyone on North America more than once in a day, and the local DMR site says silent all day.
If I want to talk to anyone in the world, I am welcome to bring up any reflector in the world, and talk. Nobody is going to tell me to stop like they do when you are on North America. I understand that North Amaerica is a lot of systems being keyed, but then how do you access London, or any other country you want to speak with? When you do, will someone come on the frequency and tell you to stop and go to a local repeater? That's not possible, and still carry on your QSO with London. I understand a lot about D-Star as far as what I am allowed to do with it, and I can say that my experience with DMR has not been so friendly so far.
Oh, and where are the talk groups identified so they can be programmed in to my radio? How long will it take me to figure that out once I get the talk groups. D-Star is much easier to understand.
kayn1n32008
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Uh ok. Care to cite any sources to that effect?
Such as?
You are SOOOOOOO completely wrong.
Actually it is the exact opposite. Although some can be sourced used, I would wager the vast majority is being bought brand spanking new.
you have a source you can cite to support this?
It is like that for lots of repeaters DStar, Fusion, and analogue. Not sure why you think it is any different
Actually a colour code would be closer to a DCS/DPL code than PL. It is not a 'tone'
Lots of repeater owners do not publish the PL/DPL codes for analogue repeaters... Your point?
The channels ARE talk groups.
No argue ing from me. But using a discriminator audio output into a sound card using DSD will give you all the info you seek... Mind you it may take time on a quiet repeater mind you, but the info is there to be found with a little time and patience
Yes they do. It's a heck of a system too. Some very smart folks have created, maintain, and are rapidly expanding the network as well. Contrary to what your opinion is. They have also become the defector RID issuing group as well. Even Hytera World Wide recommends that their users get their RID from DMR-MARC.
And so he should have. if I was listening to NA and saw on DMR.Watch you both were on the same repeater I would have done the same thing. Not to be rude, but to have a local conversation on a CONTINENT WIDE talk group is actually kind of rude to those that use the Local/Regional/State&Provincial talk groups as they were designed to be used. It is also rude to the repeater owners that have repeaters generating heat for no real good reason.
When talking to someone on the same repeater there is no point in tying up ALL the repeaters in North America that carry the NA TG full time. It is a waste of resources, and wasted electrons.
Now you understand why he asked you to take it local, and others were probably glad you guy did take it local.
You can on DMR as well, but you must have consideration for others, and understand the network architecture and use the appropriate talk group for where you are talking to.
Glad you enjoy DStar. I also am DStar capable... And to be able to use gateways, you must register as well. DMR just does it a different way.
Well your post reads otherwise. I suggest you go back and re-read what you wrote.
It is VERY amateur radio friendly, but it takes time to LEARN how it works, and understand what can and can not be done. I find it to be MUCH more user friendly, but I think this is because I have a LMR background, and understand the nuances in programming the subscriber equipment.
Why not? It is just another mode, like P25, or SSB or FM. It is just a little more involved than others, but IMHO much easier to get going on than DStar.(unless you by a dummy proof ID-3/51)
To each their own. Makes little difference to me what other hams do.
It is where I live. Very few DStar users are still using DStar where I live. I doubt if even the A module has been used in months.
Good on them. I applaud innovation. Icom radios are rather over priced.
And as time goes on I'm sure more will develop more stuff for DMR, in fact there is a lot of software development going on in DMR, some for LMR some for Ham radio.
Suuuurrrrrrreeeeee if you buy one of the dumbed down radios Icom sells... The ones that load all the repeaters for you... It is rather complex to set up, and burns a lot of memories... Doing any thing by have is a pain, so much so I have a hard time remembering how to do DStar on my IC-92AD.
Yes it can be.
I'm not even going to ask you to cite sources for this 'opinion' because it is utter BS. I owned a DStar radio long before I owned a DMR radio. My club has a full stack and added DMR to it inventory of repeaters it operated. I would challenge that, where I live, DMR is much more active than DStar.
Care to cite some sources to support that opinion
I am interested in DStar over HF... Just need to find a way to do it with out having to spen a fortune on a DStar capable Icom HF rig. Not prepared to fork out that much. As for a DStar 'picture net' Meh... Not interested in some low speed data... I have APRS for that. I'm much more interested in creating data networks that are measured in tens or hundreds of MBps rather than 5-ish KBps.
You mean SSTV?!?!?
glad you like your choice. Personally I really enjoy DMR, and like the fact it cost me less than 1/3 the cost of a DStar radio
If you call having one conversation and getting all butt hurt for having to be told to do the right thing? Sure I guess you did try... Just not very hard.
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DMR is not hard to program. There are a couple gotchas you have to watch out for. However, once you learn and remember them programming is a breeze.
Being that I drive quite a bit for work, I hear DMR NA activity many times a day while in my vehicle.
Being that I drive quite a bit for work, I hear DMR NA activity many times a day while in my vehicle.
Frankly it sounds as if you don't know much about DMR or how it works. Talk groups are very easy and are clearly identified on multiple sites including DMR-MARC and DCI.
The only difficulty is that you have to program the same frequency for each talk group you want rather than add talk groups to one frequency then select what TG you want. That means you put in one frequency fifty times, each with a different talk group.
Also for the most part the TGs are universal. 1, 3, 13, 2, 310 etc. There are exceptions like the NCPRN group who have bizarre TGs instead of the normally used ones and don't even carry required ones but they are from what I've seen the exception rather than the rule.
So you will find TG 13 on a repeater in Dallas Texas and also on the repeater in Seattle Washington.
Anything you need a calculator to figure out how and what to put in for a freq is a deal breaker for me. Way too much trouble to even think of bothering with.
It also looks like you don't have even basic consideration for others the way you're complaining about being asked to switch to a local tac channel vs tying up the entire system to yak on. That is a problem with you not the system.
As to not hearing much. I do agree with you there. It seems those in power have decided to turn off most if not all the talk groups which really IMO hurts the concept. I for one want to monitor for traffic all the talk groups not have to turn each TG on every few minutes to be able to do that. The whole PTT concept is a bad one in my opinion.
Unfortunately there isn't anything that can be done about it. It is what it is and you can take it or leave it. I'd chose taking it if it were me even though its not ideal. If I ever win the lottery then I'll set up things the way I like but until then beggars can't be choosers as the old saying goes and in the end its a damn good system they've got set up.
Personally I think they should go trunked which would solve all their problems and limitations they are concerned about. Then again that's my opinion and you know what they say about those. LOL
DMR vs D-Star
My area leads with DMR by about a 6 to 0 ratio. I have and have used both. They both have a learning curve, especially related to the software. Most DMR radios are not left over Motorolas. I have three Hytera and one CS700, all purchased new. The others in my club have new radios also, not refurbished or used. The facts that still stand out are that DMR is twice as efficient as D-Star in frequency use and there are several companies building reasonably priced DMR radios that start around $150 (Hytera PD362) for a 256 channel model. It is a commercial grade device and works very well. D-Star is locked to Icom, higher pricing, and greater use of frequency spectrum.
My area leads with DMR by about a 6 to 0 ratio. I have and have used both. They both have a learning curve, especially related to the software. Most DMR radios are not left over Motorolas. I have three Hytera and one CS700, all purchased new. The others in my club have new radios also, not refurbished or used. The facts that still stand out are that DMR is twice as efficient as D-Star in frequency use and there are several companies building reasonably priced DMR radios that start around $150 (Hytera PD362) for a 256 channel model. It is a commercial grade device and works very well. D-Star is locked to Icom, higher pricing, and greater use of frequency spectrum.
Trunking on amateur radio... Awesome to think about but it would be like herding cats.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
In this town of close to 6 million people and a couple thousand supposedly active hams, the VHF and UHF bands are dead quiet. Even when there is activity, it is limited to one or two functional repeaters.
So a trunking system would never actually trunk anything, as the system would never be loaded down enough to start trunking.
And yeah, the herding cats part..so true. Can't even get some folks to agree to use common frequencies.
Start trying to coordinate the build out of a trunked network core? Ha ha, that's funny.
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