I'm now digital and I have questions

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mindphasr

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Mar 19, 2006
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I finally have a new radio to replace my 246T. After moving to Minnesota I was unable to use due to P25. I now have a 396XT and am doing the programming for it. I think I have the structure of ARMER figured out, or at least enough to get by for now. I do have some questions though.

1) For lack of better example, lets say I wanted to monitor the public works departments for St. Paul, Minneapolis, Hennepin and Ramsey Counties. I've attached an image of the way I have it setup. I've pulled what I think is needed for this. I have a System with 5 sites in it and I have 4 groups created with the talkgroup ids in it. Is this the proper way to do this? Also, I know I have 5 sites and only 4 groups but not sure which site is not needed. Is there a benefit to doing this all within one system rather than across a couple?

2) I've read a lot of material here and it seems to be the consensus that talkgroups are pretty much identified for any of the higher traffic ones in ARMER, specifically in Hennepin, Minneapolis, etc. I am still seeing quite a few IDs show up that i'm not even seeing listed in the RR DB. Am I doing something wrong or is there in fact a lot of IDs not identified in the DB?
 

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johnmoe1

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"there in fact a lot of IDs not identified in the DB?" There are definitely some. Lots of street departments seem to be often missing. Washington County is not well covered. A bunch of light rail talkgroups are missing. Etc.
 

stmills

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Mindphasr, to give you the best advise on how to configure your radio a bit of info on your planned usage would be helpful. Are you planning to use your radio mobile or from a fixed location or locations and what City's are these in. If you are not using it in the areas covered by the towers there is no need to enter them in.
As for missing talk group ids- there are many that are not listed here or are listed in correct, many of us have stopped submitting data for the Twin Cities- this has been discussed at length in other posts on here so that is all I will say in the forums about it.
 

mindphasr

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Thanks guys. I plan on listening both mobile and fixed. In Minneapolis and Eden Prairie. Maybe I'm assuming incorrectly that I can obtain the signals for Hennepin, Ramsey, St. Paul and Minneapolis while in Eden Prairie or Minneapolis?

I guess I am looking for a more general answer. Using what I mentioned as an example. Is there a down side to putting multiple sites in one system? Is this the proper way to do it if I want to put a single system together for both cities public works?

I will look for the threads on the talk group IDs. Thanks again for your help
 

fwfdengine2

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Minneapolis N-S site gets good signal from the center of Eden Prairie. 0 signal on the Ramsey system and perfect reception with HC EAST, HC WEST and Carver. SALERT (st paul fire main) is forced on HC EAST so you will hear that in Eden Prairie no matter what. MPFD 3 is active on HC EAST sometimes although usually not. But basically it depends where exactly in Eden Prairie you are.
 

johnmoe1

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If you are trying to figure out which sites to listen to this really horribly designed web page of mine might help : Talkgroups/Site

It is based on what I received in central Dakota county over the last 30 days. For each talkgroup, I show what percent of the traffic was received from each site. You can hover over the number to see the site name. I certainly wouldn't use the numbers for anything terribly important, but it may help you be sure you have selected the right sites.
 

ofd8001

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Is there a down side to putting multiple sites in one system? Is this the proper way to do it if I want to put a single system together for both cities public works?

Yes - absolutely if you are mobile.

I'm a "better to have it and not need rather than need it and not have it" kind of guy. If you are out of range of a site, the scanner will just skip over that site. It's along the lines of scanning a conventional channel that isn't transmitting -a very brief pause, almost unnoticeable, then it moves on.

Since you have just a handful of sites programmed, there is minimal impact on scanning efficiency. Now if you had all of the ARMER sites programmed, you might experience some missed transmissions.

What I've done on my 396XT for when I travel to Minnesota is this. All of the ARMER sites are programmed. I'll assign site quick keys on a regional basis. Those in the Twin Cities are on one quick key, those around East Grand Forks are on another and the rest are on a third. Depending upon where I am, I'll enable or disable the system quick keys.

With you being a permanent resident there a similar thing could be considered if you want a real sharp point on the pencil. Have the sites you can receive at home on one quick key with the others farther out on another. When at home, enable the appropriate quick key and disable the other. When mobile, enable the other.
 

johnmoe1

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Yes - absolutely if you are mobile.
If you are out of range of a site, the scanner will just skip over that site. It's along the lines of scanning a conventional channel that isn't transmitting -a very brief pause, almost unnoticeable, then it moves on.

Since you seem to have thought about this, how long do scanners tend to spend on sites that you do receive? I imagine it has to be at least a third of a second.
 

ofd8001

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I just turned on my 396XT monitoring my local system, which is a four site system. I'm in range of one site right now and out of range for the three others.

For the site where I'm in range, it dwells for about three seconds.

For those out of range, I see the site name very briefly - just long enough to make it out - then it moves on. Just guessing, less than a quarter second.
 

NDRADIONUT

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Steve ! Will you ever let it go... I 've told you several times it was info submitted by someone else who had a good track record that replaced yours. It was nothing but a misunderstanding and maybe you could just get over it one of these days !
 

stmills

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The only problem you stand to run into with all sites in one group in the Metro is not all talkgroups are on each tower- this is most noticeable in Hennepin county where you have 4 systems working- 1-001, 1-009, 2-001, 2-002. For instance city of Minneapolis talkgroups home is 1-009 and most roam to 1-001 or 2-001 but not always both, this plays out throughout the west Metro and you can find your scanner is locked on tower 2-001 but the talkgroup is only on 1-001 and 1-009. The link posted that shows what talkgroups are being received on each site is a good help getting the right towers and talkgroups together.
 

stmills

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NDRADIO,
I have moved on - years ago- I moved on and stopped providing updates to the database. As stated many times before I am on the forums to assist other members but I will not provide info to the database. In helping people monitor the Metro ARMER system I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge that the metro does not receive the updates it used to. Even You have stated that you do not get updates submitted from the metro so my stating that is just stating what you also have said. I acknowledged that I have a past issue with submissions and tried to leave it there but you decided that for some reason I am not supposed to state what is fact. Everything I have posted about submissions on here has been 100% factual, Your responses have been all over the board from denying it happened, to passing the blame, to blaming the fact that you have no way to know what is valid, to now stating the submissions came from a vetted member, which is it?

"Well I went back through the submissions to 2005 when I started as a DB adm. and I couldn't see where info was changed back and forth.." 04/04/2014
" The ols subs I have access to only go back to late 2004 so if it happened b4 then I cant get to it and it was b4 I started working on it" 04/04/2014
"Well im sure i did the updates in question but as i stated how did or do i know if some submission is correct or not ??05/10/2014
"I've told you several times it was submitted by someone else who had a good track record that replaced yours"11/25/2014
 

NDRADIONUT

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Well it doesnt hurt me personally if you are still upset about it. You are only hurting people in the twin city area who had nothing to do with the submission misunderstanding. I offered several times to work it out with you, but you would rather take your marbles and go home...
 

mindphasr

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The only problem you stand to run into with all sites in one group in the Metro is not all talkgroups are on each tower- this is most noticeable in Hennepin county where you have 4 systems working- 1-001, 1-009, 2-001, 2-002. For instance city of Minneapolis talkgroups home is 1-009 and most roam to 1-001 or 2-001 but not always both, this plays out throughout the west Metro and you can find your scanner is locked on tower 2-001 but the talkgroup is only on 1-001 and 1-009. The link posted that shows what talkgroups are being received on each site is a good help getting the right towers and talkgroups together.

Very good information, I have a lot to learn about the towers themselves. I think that will help with understanding some programming basics.
 

mindphasr

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Also - while I am not privy to what appears to be some drama regarding the database, I can say it all does seem rather silly.

Honestly, I don't really care the reason, I just think if you are going to stop providing updates to the database out of spite you should first realize it deprives everyone else of being able to use the information. For someone like me who may not have the radio knowledge nor the time that others have, the database is incredibly helpful and you can expect that if I have anything to add to the database, it will be done.
 

mindphasr

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Mar 19, 2006
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If you are trying to figure out which sites to listen to this really horribly designed web page of mine might help : Talkgroups/Site

It is based on what I received in central Dakota county over the last 30 days. For each talkgroup, I show what percent of the traffic was received from each site. You can hover over the number to see the site name. I certainly wouldn't use the numbers for anything terribly important, but it may help you be sure you have selected the right sites.

This site is great, thanks for sharing!
 
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