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Motorola ADP Encryption and the BK KNG-800

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PVPD730

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Are the Relm/BK KNG-800 radios capable of using Motorola ADP encryption? We were told by a representative from a RF consulting firm (who will remain unnamed) that the radios do have that capability. I call BS as I was under the impression that only Motorola radios could do ADP (as it is proprietary to their equipment). On the Relm spec sheets, it states their radios are only capable of AES/DES/OFB.
 

Josh

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Yes, that could be a possibility, but also a bit unlikely due to the lower level of security and cost... I think a listing I read a few years back showed ADP as being a pretty cheap upgrade at purchase as compared to the rest (which also involved a UCM to be installed and KVL to program it).
 

MTS2000des

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PVPD730

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Ask your "consultant" for the documentation from Relm/BK.
As you said, the only documentation from Relm/BK states the KNG series are capable of AES/DES:

http://www.relm.com/Brochures/Overviews/Encryption Overview.pdf

This particular consultant (actually acted more like a used car salesman) came in and talked the KNG radios up like they were the best damn thing since sliced bread. He even brought a handheld unit in with him to do a demonstration. While showing everyone the features, he went on to tell the group that he prefers to carry that unit over any other (including his Moto APX), and he actually prefers to do coverage testing with the KNG unit. When asked to turn it on, he did so and it emitted an obnoxious bonk. Imagine that! It was a dummy radio that wasn't even programmed. I talked to someone at a nearby agency, and this joker did the exact same thing while demonstrating features on an APX unit.
 
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PVPD730

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Manufacturers have been known to licence technology from other manufacturers.

True. Motorola licensed Smartnet to EFJ, so I suppose it would be possible to do in this scenario as it applies to proprietary encryption.
 

DisasterGuy

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I would question any consultant pushing a particular radio or manufacturer. Clearly they aren't looking to identify the best platform for a particular agency. BK does indeed make nice subscriber radios and considering their share of the USFS market it wouldn't be too surprising for them to have struck a deal with Moto to license ADP. With that said I still shake my head at anyone that would implement ADP, typically they are simply lead by consultants like the one you have encountered.
 

MTS2000des

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I would question any consultant pushing a particular radio or manufacturer..

There in lies the problem. Far too many of these "consultants" have to close ties to a particular vendor. Many times, the revolving door of consultants in and out of those vendors or agencies that retain the consulting firms and buy from those same vendors... flow like a river.

You cannot expect to get an HONEST unbiased solution from anyone who is connected to a vendor.

But that's how it's been in the public safety LMR business for as long as I can remember.
 

PVPD730

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I would question any consultant pushing a particular radio or manufacturer. Clearly they aren't looking to identify the best platform for a particular agency. BK does indeed make nice subscriber radios and considering their share of the USFS market it wouldn't be too surprising for them to have struck a deal with Moto to license ADP. With that said I still shake my head at anyone that would implement ADP, typically they are simply lead by consultants like the one you have encountered.

Oh believe me, the brass is already on to him. #1 we've just about completed our transition to P25, and things are still undecided about encryption. Our agency for sure will not be using it on the primary dispatch channels. If (and that's a huge if) they decide to use it, it will be limited to a couple of TAC channels-and-it will have to be AES and/or DES being that most of our neighboring agencies use both. This consultant did bring up ADP multiple times, though, so it was obvious what he was attempting to do.
 

DisasterGuy

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AES-256 is the defacto standard for interoperable multi-vendor encryption, so say ye the almighty DHS:

http://www.twoway.net/sites/default/files/documents/p25_encryption_and_interoperability.pdf

Indeed true. At least DES though is interoperable compared to ADP. I am actually considering implementing DES on a couple of our talkgroups when we migrate to P25 next year because #1 it is our current encryption standard for LE tactical channels and #2 single-key DES is damn near free from several vendors. It offers a pretty good solution for things like "convenience" medical consult patches and fire service intra-company talkgroups. As you state though, all of our traditionally encrypted talkgroups (primarily law enforcement tactical channels) will be moved to 256-AES.
 

com501

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DES is completely compromised for security. Best to stick with AES256 if you truly need encryption on TAC channels.

There is no need for encryption to satisfy any HIPAA requirements.

Looking at my most current RELM/BK dealer price sheet and also at the KNG software, there is no mention of ADP at all, so I call official BS on your salesman's claim. They DO offer a CAL-FIRE feature set option, however, for the KNG, something that was awaited for a long time.
 

com501

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Um, NO, they are not. NO WHERE in the KNG pricing or spec sheet does it mention Motorola proprietary 40 bit ADP encryption whatsoever.

PLEASE post an official document from Relm/BK in this regard, as I couldn't find anything in the pricing pages, the product literature, OR THE PROGRAMMING SOFTWARE, that would allow ADP.

Otherwise, I call BS.
 

mancow

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EFJ was in bed with Moto pretty good. BK and EFJ were very tight as well. I wouldn't think it too far out of the possibility that BK would work a deal with them.
 
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