WTH is going on with San Bernardino Co system? Stuck carriers, noise etc

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spectr17

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San Bernardino Co system has gone from bad to complete crap that past couple days. Stuck carriers, noise, static etc. I heard someone on one of the PD channels talking about flying a porta peater up right after the last storm. Are they just going to let it crash finally?

EV-1, Redlands PD is stuck with open carrier right now.

It's terrible
 

pepsima1

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San Bernardino Co system has gone from bad to complete crap that past couple days. Stuck carriers, noise, static etc. I heard someone on one of the PD channels talking about flying a porta peater up right after the last storm. Are they just going to let it crash finally?

EV-1, Redlands PD is stuck with open carrier right now.

It's terrible

Its either weather related or the comm techs are working on their new 700 mhz trunking system.
 

zz0468

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San Bernardino Co system has gone from bad to complete crap that past couple days.

Where exactly are you listening from? The most of the systems are simulcast, and if you're listening from outside the simulcast primary coverage area, it'll sound pretty ratty.

Stuck carriers, noise, static etc.

Stuck carriers are not a direct result of system conditions. Noise and static is a common ailment in Southern California 800 MHz systems because of illegal cellphone boosters and jammers. At almost any given moment, SB County techs are working to resolve at least one external interference issue somewhere. When one gets resolved, another one pops up elsewhere.

I heard someone on one of the PD channels talking about flying a porta peater up right after the last storm.

Probably not in the context of a maintenance issue. Operation on a portable repeater system would preclude use of their consoles, and would involve loss of functionality such as emergency buttons, unit ID's on consoles, patching, and most of their available talk groups. I strongly doubt a PD having problems would want the radio maintenance people to expend resources on anything other than resolving the problem.

Are they just going to let it crash finally?

Why would they do that? It's still carrying safety of life communications.

EV-1, Redlands PD is stuck with open carrier right now.

Redlands PD doesn't use 7-EVC-1. If they have an open carrier, it's one of their units with a stuck mike. They would see the unit ID on their console.

It's terrible

Where do you listen from, and what talk groups?

There are some unusual configurations in both system 6/7 and system 8 that could cause an outsider to think it sucks, when it works just fine for the intended users. That said, the weather plays havoc with things like microwave links and leased lines. Ideally it would be minimal, but parts of these systems are almost 25 years old now. Imagine the challenges of keeping it going.
 
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zz0468

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I think it's sounding better today in the Big Bear area than it was over the last few days. Has it improved for you today?

The Big Bear area doesn't carry all of the system 8 channels for all the talk groups. Depending on what you're listening to, and where, it could sound great, or it could be completely unusable. The end users don't see this unless they try to use their radios outside their jurisdiction.

Its either weather related or the comm techs are working on their new 700 mhz trunking system.

More likely none of the above.

The maintenance group does not work on the build out of the 700 MHz system. The group building the 700 MHz system are not involved in day to day maintenance of the 800 MHz Smartnet system.
 
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spectr17

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Listening from the valley around Redlands. I know what this system USED to sound like and its complete crap now. I've heard patrol units complaining of the same crap. Stuck carrier last night on Redlands PD and EV-1. Static so bad dispatch has to ask units to repeat their traffic SEVERAL times so I know it's not my scanner or location. The dead carrier was not the normal stuck keyed mobile where you hear the normal background noise, this was just a dead carrier. Dispatch and mobiles also reported the dead carrier.

Yes it sounds a lot better today.
 
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zz0468

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Listening from the valley around Redlands. I know what this system USED to sound like and its complete crap now. I've heard patrol units complaining of the same crap.

Interesting. I've listened to the system from that area, and haven't heard anything unusual.

Stuck carrier last night on Redlands PD and EV-1. Static so bad dispatch has to ask units to repeat their traffic SEVERAL times so I know it's not my scanner or location.

Sounds like something broke. I guess that's to be expected with an almost 25 year old system.

The dead carrier was not the normal stuck keyed mobile where you hear the normal background noise, this was just a dead carrier. Dispatch and mobiles also reported the dead carrier.

There's a known failure mode in the XTL5000 where it keys up an unmodulated carrier. There is no microphone audio when that happens. I wonder if it could be something like that.

Yes it sounds a lot better today.

Sounds like whatever was broken got fixed. How about that...
 
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f40ph

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Correct me if I'm wrong, if a user radio were somehow "stuck", wouldn't the time-out-timer kill it after a minute (or whatever the TOT setting is)?
 

jeatock

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Correct me if I'm wrong, if a user radio were somehow "stuck", wouldn't the time-out-timer kill it after a minute (or whatever the TOT setting is)?

Yes, IF the programmer bothered to enable it.

Half of the radio 'service problems' I see on equipment I haven't worked on are really programming issues. And quite a few of those bone-headed programming issues are 'by order of the agency".
 

f40ph

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Since SB County radio is the only agency allowed to program and authorize radio numbers for "all" users on this 800mhz system, I'm very confident they would not make any exception in terms of TOT.
 

jeatock

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And as the primary contractor for several systems I have never transposed a number, thick-fingered a setting or simply forgot.

And if you buy that I have this piece of swamp property ...
 

zz0468

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Correct me if I'm wrong, if a user radio were somehow "stuck", wouldn't the time-out-timer kill it after a minute (or whatever the TOT setting is)?

There are failure modes that will keep a mobile transmitter keyed for hours until the vehicle battery goes dead, regardless of any TOT settings.
 

jim202

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There are failure modes that will keep a mobile transmitter keyed for hours until the vehicle battery goes dead, regardless of any TOT settings.


Instead of putting up with the problem, why doesn't the dispatcher have the field units just change to another talkgroup? That would be the most logical solution. But let me guess, they can't swap to another talkgroup because the upper rank didn't think of it. Even a fifth grader could have come up with this solution.

Jim
 

zz0468

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Systems 1 and 4 sound good.

The hardware in those systems is just a few years old, and is much more stable than the 23 year old hardware in systems 6 and 8. In spite of that, the older equipment can be made to sound pretty good. If it doesn't, something's broken, it'll get fixed.

So long as there are active users on those systems, they will be maintained as well as possible and not "let go" until they're ready to be decommissioned. That's at least several years out.
 

zz0468

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In the last month, they've found four separate interference sources, and fixed an intermod problem. It doesn't sound to me like they're letting it go to seed.
 

zz0468

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Hi, curious.... What would be an example of a interference source... ?

Thanks zz

Cellular signal boosters and Cellular jammers would be a couple of examples. The boosters can oscillate and create enough noise that they desense system receivers, and cause static to be heard by dispatchers, and get repeated back out to other mobile users. The jammers create holes in coverage where nothing works.

It can be very time consuming to locate these things. The process to get from vague customer complaints of "static" to positive identification and elimination of of a jammer or booster located on someone's private property can take anywhere from several weeks to several months.

And when there are enough out there that as soon as one is found and shut down, another is discovered, the perception is that the system is falling apart, when nothing is further from the truth.

That doesn't even begin to address the multitudes of interference possibilities that exist on busy mountaintop radio sites.

In this area, you need to either be really good at finding these things, or take up a different line of work.
 

scottyhetzel

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Thanks zz...we install Wilson cell boosters all the time. We recently got recalls on many.. I'm sure you have to triangle-late to find the culprit . What a PITA ..

I thought hammers were against the FCC law.
 
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