Nexedge decoding issue with dsd+

Hello all, I am having difficulty getting TG info on nexedge systems with DSD+. I get Radio Ids but no talk group info or RAN info. When there is no TG info or RAN info, what does the system use? I am trying to monitor a local university security close to me, they only operate on one single voice frequency, not trunked, just one repeater. Also, when i listen to it through my computer, i get group call only, no TGs. I read somewhere that a group call TG is 65535, i programmed my radio, which i am using a icom 4262 digital radio, with that TG and a RAN of 0 and get nothing. Any ideas? Thanks all!

There are several Nexedge conventional repeaters here. DSD+ doesn't show talkgroups on any of them. All I get is RAN, radio ID and Alias.

Atleast you are getting a RAN number. The system i am monitoring doe snot show that or Talk Group numbers, just group call and radio IDs.

I take that back. The Aliases log shows TG=-1 on all of them. I don't know how a talkgroup ID can be a negative number.

Event log lines look like:
2014/12/09 10:49:07 Group call; RID=1501 AC Base 10s

Alias log lines look like this:
PROTOCOL=NEXEDGE TG=-1 RID=1501 ALIAS="AC Base"

RAN is only displayed in the main window and event log window. I'm not sure but you might have to use -V4 switch to see the RAN. Nobody is talking right now so I can't copy and paste examples.

nd5y said:

I take that back. The Aliases log shows TG=-1 on all of them. I don't know how a talkgroup ID can be a negative number.

Event log lines look like:
2014/12/09 10:49:07 Group call; RID=1501 AC Base 10s

Alias log lines look like this:
PROTOCOL=NEXEDGE TG=-1 RID=1501 ALIAS="AC Base"

RAN is only displayed in the main window and event log window. I'm not sure but you might have to use -V4 switch to see the RAN. Nobody is talking right now so I can't copy and paste examples.

Click to expand...

-1 = "No talkgroup"

so if you set your talk groups to a -1 that means no talk groups?

No. DSD+ uses -1.

Found the answer myself.

I am trying to program an IDAS system into a Icom 4262 digital radio. On dsd-, i get the following in the event log window, group call; tg=33554433 RID=2-387 ch1. The frequency is 463.450 in western PA. I go on my Icom programming software and put in the frequency as conventional, I programmed the frequency in 64 times, each with a different RAN code, 0 through 63 with a TG of a 0 and tried a TG of a 1 and get nothing, the green light flashes but I get no audio, but get decode on DSD+. I tried to enter the TG whichDSD shows, the 33554433, but the Icom software changes it to 65535. Also, it says Idas site 13 on the bottom of the DSD event log. Any ideas?

In WinDSD I see things like:

SRV_INFO Sys:1-1 Site:1
IDAS Ch DATA CALL_RESP MS GC FRp:0 SI:2-388 DI:2-1 DSys:1-1
SACCH: Ar:0 GoTo Rp:1 GI:2-1


GI: 2-1 (Group ID)
SI: 2-338 (Source ID) (I've seen some others as well)
DI: 2-1 (Destination ID)

I think the reason DI and GI are the same is because it's a group call. If it is possible to do radio-to-radio private calls, then there probably would be no GI and only a DI, and the DI would likely be a 2-xxx ID.

In DSD+ the system info I see (not during a voice call) is:

Area=0 SiteType=1 (wide area) Site#=1

Of course, some of the other related sites (on other freqs of course) show as (middle area)

461.975
Area=0 SiteType=2 (middle area) Site#=12

462.450
Area=0 SiteType=1 (wide area) Site#=1

463.275
Area=0 SiteType=2 (middle area) SIte#=14

463.450
Area=0 SiteType=1 (wide area) Site#=13

Mike

Mike what system is those frequencies for?

so how would you program those into the programming software anybody have a clue on that because I am so lost

jeffm77 said:

so how would you program those into the programming software anybody have a clue on that because I am so lost

Click to expand...

I wouldn't know. The information isn't there so that people can program it in their radios [and attempt to somehow gain access to the system, if that's your ultimate goal]. It's there so people with the capability to use WindSD | DSD | DSD+ can monitor if they wish.

So, at this point I have no more to say on the subject.

Mike

I would just like to monitor the system that's all nothing wrong with that what's the difference between monitoring the system or any orher system at that with the decoding software vs an actual radio? if it was that much of a big deal it would be encrypted

jeffm77 said:

I would just like to monitor the system that's all nothing wrong with that what's the difference between monitoring the system or any orher system at that with the decoding software vs an actual radio? if it was that much of a big deal it would be encrypted

Click to expand...

I dunno. Seemed odd that you were hellbent on monitoring a gas gathering frequency that has _very_ little activity on your IDAS radio. I mean what's the point, considering the traffic is very scattered and very boring. So much more to monitor out there if you put that dongle to good use tuning around the band rather than worrying about getting the radio to work.

But I guess I get it. If I had an IDAS radio and you didn't have anything licensed that you could transmit/receive on, I'd probably try to stick something in there to see how well it performs.

At any rate, I can't tell you what you'd program in. I'm only telling you what both programs reveal. Maybe somebody else can translate the information obtained from DSD+ and WinDSD into something more useful that you can use to program your radio, assuming your radio even supports IDAS trunking.

Mike

yes Mike the radio that I have does support trunking and yes the conversations are very far and in between and are very boring but like you said I'm new at this digital stuff at least nexedge and idas. I want to put them into my radio because that's the only system around me that is using the idas stuff so that being said I want to learn how to program these types of systems into a radio so later on down the road if something else pops up on this type of system I will know how to do it that's the only reason why I am trying to figure out how to program them in I can care less what they have to say or what they talk about all I want to learn is how to program the radio for this type of system so later on if something else pops up that I do want to put in and keep in the radio I know how to do it because I was told they are on tg 2-1. but when I program that talk group into my radio software the software just takes it as a 2. so I am just trying to figure out what I am doing wrong with the software. the other thing is I don't know if I should be programming it as a multisite trunked system or conventional.

jeffm77 said:

yes Mike the radio that I have does support trunking and yes the conversations are very far and in between and are very boring but like you said I'm new at this digital stuff at least nexedge and idas. I want to put them into my radio because that's the only system around me that is using the idas stuff so that being said I want to learn how to program these types of systems into a radio so later on down the road if something else pops up on this type of system I will know how to do it that's the only reason why I am trying to figure out how to program them in I can care less what they have to say or what they talk about all I want to learn is how to program the radio for this type of system so later on if something else pops up that I do want to put in and keep in the radio I know how to do it because I was told they are on tg 2-1. but when I program that talk group into my radio software the software just takes it as a 2. so I am just trying to figure out what I am doing wrong with the software. the other thing is I don't know if I should be programming it as a multisite trunked system or conventional.

Click to expand...

Hello,

DSDPlus has a bug when displaying IDAS Type-D trunked system Group IDs. TG=33554433 is not valid.

Your other information indicates you are listening to Site 13 on a Multisite Type-D (IDAS) trunked system. My windows port of the DSD program would show the correct talkgroup, although talkgroup 2-1 is likely correct as the Radio IDs are prefixed with a 2 as well. This thread has other information about IDAS trunked systems.
http://forums.radioreference.com/tr...oding/298002-understanding-idas-trunking.html

It appears you are trying to program the system as conventional. You need to program the system as a Multisite IDAS Trunked System (Type-D). You need to get the System ID, and all the Repeater Numbers with frequencies for site 13.

Even with this information, I doubt you can setup the radio for a Receive-Only talkgroup. Multisite systems usually require the radio to register with the site and provide a valid radio id. You can not make up a radio id as it can affect valid users and you are using the system without the system operator's permission. The radio also sends an Electronic Serial Number when it registers and systems can be setup to disallow unauthorized radios and even disable them.

73 Eric

jeffm77 said:

I would just like to monitor the system that's all nothing wrong with that what's the difference between monitoring the system or any orher system at that with the decoding software vs an actual radio? if it was that much of a big deal it would be encrypted

Click to expand...

Call up the company that runs the system and let them know that's how you feel. Maybe pity will work in your favor. In this situation, since all you want to do is monitor, is to stick with a DSD derivative.

I hope you didn't buy the radio for this sole purpose without doing your due dilligence on programming.