Hopewell, VA declares public safety emergency due to main radio system being down

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trainman111

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That little blurb about Commtronics and the vast savings vs. Motorola makes me fear that that "cheaper" system may be MotoTRBO.
 

troymail

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W4UVV

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Stop the PIty Party|Don't Pass the Crying Towel..some history first

Rushing funds to get a new radio system that has already been in the discussion phase to the table.

Hopewell declares public safety emergency - News - The Progress-Index - Petersburg, VA

I had my federal civil service job transferred to Ft. Lee in 1974. I have monitored all area radios ever since.First before memories fade and history gets rewritten as some wish to do, here are my opinions, recollections and memories of the following subjects:

1. Eastern Virginia Regional Communications(EVRC): In the early 2000 period after Sep 11,2001 Motorola announced it was the first manufacturer to offer a dual band (400 mhz./800 mhz.trunked radio system controller. Area federal and local government radio systems were asked if they would like to be a user on the EVRC system. Ft. Lee was the first central VA user on the system .Hopewell agreed to join and subsequently has operated on their 800mhz. trs. The Defense Supply Center Richmond declined preferring to retain their simplex and later encrypted 400 mhz trs. Petersburg declined. Prince George Co. declined preferring to use their own county towers for a future replacement radio system which it did and we all know how well that turned out. Additional federal users on the EVRC were the Norfolk Naval Base and Shipyard. EVRC used microwave links/T1 for interconnectivity and interoperability.

On rare occasions I heard Ft. Lee Security and FD on the Hopewell trs. I never heard Hopewell on the Ft. Lee trs. I never heard any comms from the Norfolk Naval Base or Shipyard. Curious as to why I called an acquaintance familiar with EVRC ops. I told him the comms I heard just as easily could be monitored on two standalone systems. He responded that dispatcher/unit comms from the other EVRC system users were annoying and distracting to other EVRC radio system's dispatchers and therefore were not monitored.

2. In mid-2000 DOD ramped up the installations schedule for selected DOD trunked radio system users to relocate in the 385-400 mhz. range. Hopewell management was aware at that time Ft. Lee in the near future would no longer be a user on EVRC leaving only Hopewell as the only user in central VA. That relocation day came for Ft. Lee approximately 3 years ago. Hopewell is still on EVRC. In my opinion Hopewell management failed to previously plan accordingly for a new radio system they knew the city would have to have in the near future.

|NOTE TO THE RR VA DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR. FT LEE CEASED EVRC OPERATIONS 3 YEARS AGO. FT LEE DOES NOT HAVE ANY 400 MHZ. COMMS. PLEASE REMOVE ALL EVRC FT. LEE REFERENCES.|

3. Time passes...Hopewell assigns a deputy on I295 for traffic speed enforcement daily. There is a small stretch on I295 near the Hopewell/Ft. Lee Rt. 36 intersection which is in the city of Hopewell. Typically a deputy is on scene from morning to night. In the mornings he catches the going to work traffic and from northern locations. In the evening he might switch to I295N to catch the going home traffic and from southern locations. Infrequently at times a second unit may participate for covering both I295 south and north.

The I295 traffic speeding enforcement has been so successful the Richmond Times Dispatch printed an article on the operation a couple of years ago. I think the article estimated approximately $2 million annually of additional revenue is provided to the city. I don't know what agreement the state has with Hopewell but assuming this operation has been fairly constant during past 5 years at a 50% kickback that would be approximately $5 million extra revenue which would buy a nice chunk of a new trs.

So what happened to those additional funds provided to the Hopewell city management? Not to worry. In my opinion, I'm sure they will have explanations and justifications.

Time passes...Rumor was Hopewell would be a user on the Chesterfield Co. trs. I thought that was a good practical economic decision for Hopewell so as to be able to continue trs operations as a user like Colonial Heights. For some reason(s) that never happened.

You probably have heard "A failure to plan is a plan to fail". In my opinion this old saying never was more truer. In my opinion, each Hopewell management official who had decision making authority in this matter contributed in some part to what now is another crisis situation that did not have to happen. The public may wish to express their feelings about the matter at the next appropriate election cycle.

As for me, cancel the pity party and don't pass me the crying towel. I have zero sympathy for the city's management. My sympathy is for the city taxpayer who probably will see his tax bill increase when a new trs is selected. This sad situation could have been avoided if appropriate actions in the past had been taken such as creating a contingency fund for a future new radio system with periodic contributions made to it. But that never happened either. Live only for today.
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3. Reference poor radio comms. Since 1974 I frequently have monitored most local area radio systems. In reference to the Wells Fargo bank robbery of a couple weeks ago, I was on the internet but listening to scanner comms. I heard 98% of the comms. What immediately caught my attention was the Hopewell PD dispatcher advising that the FBI had been notified. Bank robbery is a federal crime and the FBI investigates all bank robberies. The smart banks these days use bank bags with built in GPS tracking locators or the teller may manually insert one if possible. The ion battery has an average operating life of 6 months at full charge.. Within minutes the bank can be tracking the bag's location on a secure website

The four suspects when I listened were about 2-3 miles from the bank. Prince George Co, Petersburg, and Colonial Heights PDs had been alerted. I focused listening to the pursuit comms. The dispatcher was relaying almost in real time the suspect's bag (vehicle) location, speed and direction of travel. For example, I recall "vehicle now going 50 on Oaklawn Blvd" and later "vehicle turned west on Pine St.", etc. The pursuit continued onto Temple Ave. in Prince George Co. headed west toward Southpark Mall/Colonial Heights with three Hopewell units following. An alerted Prince George Co.unit was in the general area and responded.

Temple Ave. is a high volume traffic road at various periods. Approaching the intersection of Puddledock Road/Temple Ave. the suspects must have seen the Prince George Co. unit and veered onto Puddledock Road. They subsequently bailed from the car and were foot chased by Prince George Co. and Hopewell PD officers. By now additional Prince George Co. units were on scene. Not long after bailing two suspects were captured and the other two ran eastward across Temple Ave. toward Lowes. One was captured near Lowes but the other suspect managed to elude and ran across a large undeveloped land area from the east side of Lowes to the Ft. Lee boundary line and disappeared in the woods. That part of Ft. Lee is the same as it was a 1,000 years ago with thick woods, thorny green vines, ticks, chitters,etc.

There is an active NS railroad passing thru that section to Hopewell. NS was called and all train traffic was stopped. Petersburg arrived with a tracking dog and soon thereafter most comms ceased. About 30-45 minutes later a Hopewell unit advised the fourth suspect had been captured near the Chesterfield Auto Parts junk yard which is about 1,000 ft. from Lowes on Puddledock Road.

A no time do I recall any Hopewell, Prince George Co. or Petersburg unit having any comm problems with their respective dispatchers or other same radio system users.

Disclaimer: The above comments are my opinions and recollections of history regarding the discussed subjects.

John
W4UVV
 

John

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I wonder if it was the 'system' that failed or just the dispatch consoles? Since they mention using an APX7500 consolette as a backup and the limitations of not seeing IDs, etc it sounds to me like it may have been a consolette failure. In which case the trunking system John W4UVV was listening to may have sounded fine but the dispatch connection may have been limited. Which could also be limiting the recording capability.

Of course that doesn't mean it isn't time to consider upgrading the whole system.

John
 

W4UVV

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The EVRS did not fail

I wonder if it was the 'system' that failed or just the dispatch consoles? Since they mention using an APX7500 consolette as a backup and the limitations of not seeing IDs, etc it sounds to me like it may have been a consolette failure. In which case the trunking system John W4UVV was listening to may have sounded fine but the dispatch connection may have been limited. Which could also be limiting the recording capability.

Of course that doesn't mean it isn't time to consider upgrading the whole system.

John

The EVRS system did not fail. Upgrading EVRS is a separate subject for discussion. The EVRS dispatchers did not want to listen to other systems comms because they were distracting and annoying. Why would a Norfolk Naval Base dispatcher want to be monitor Hopewell city comms in addition to her "normal" trs comms and vice versa?

One main attraction for an EVRS user was the dual band system controller interoperability feature. A 400 mhz. user could have interop comms with an 800 mhz. user and vice versa. For Hopewell it was Ft. Lee only and vice versa.. EVRS is a DOD federal taxpayer funded radio system. The Hopewell trs is a local govt.radio system. There currently is no other central VA radio system user on EVRS since the Ft. Lee 400 mhz.trs ceased operation 3 years ago and relocated to the 385-400 mhz. range as a new trs.

An argument could be made that federal taxpayer monies partially are subsidizing a solely local govt.radio system operating on a federal radio system. I don't know what agreement Hopewell has with EVRS regarding monies but it should have been prepared financially to relocate from EVRS months ago to a new radio trs.

Again Hopewell management was aware years ago about DOD's plan to relocate many of its trs to the 385-400 mhz. range. They knew Ft. Lee would be one of DOD facilities impacted and which would be relocating. With Ft. Lee gone there was no interop reason to remain on EVRS. So for past three years now DOD has had an EVRS user who should have relocated months ago but didn't. In my opinion, Hopewell can't leave because its' past and present management failed to provide a workable financial solution for that situation and doesn't have the monies for a new trs. Hopewell will have to remain on EVRS for the indefinite future since its' license KNNR287 has no expiration date. It will take a while for new taxes to provide additional revenue or for the city to borrow the millions required if it can depending in part on its' credit rating.

John
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John

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I guess I am still trying to figure out what failed to prompt them to say they are using a backup system of APX-7500s and to 'declare an emergency'. I understand they should have planned a migration or upgrade path and I also understand about the dispatchers not wanting to listen to other traffic but none of those explain that happened on or about 20 Oct and where they stand today.

As a locality that still has a Smartnet system (although not primarily for Public Safety) I am curious as to what happened.

John
 

W4UVV

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I think you are correct

That little blurb about Commtronics and the vast savings vs. Motorola makes me fear that that "cheaper" system may be MotoTRBO.

I agree. I think you are correct. It probably will be the lesser economic long term expense. Although Commtronics can do NXDN/NEXEDGE installations, it installs mostly MOTOTRBO.

The DMR MOTOTRBO option works for the Charles City Co. Sheriff. I recently finished documenting the Charles City SO system's attributes which included the Dispatcher and Unit ids for my database. The decoded audio sounds fine. I decided to document all vhf/uhf MOTOTRBO and NXDN/NEXEDGE radio systems I can receive. Additionally, I configured two DMR DSD PLUS/DMR Decode receive systems to better analyze a licensee's MOTOROLA Capacity Plus linked frequencies and hopefully id the talkgroup users.

This year via license issues and modifications I have noticed an increasing number of local governments selecting the DMR platform as a cost effective way of satisfying their comm requirements

John
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PhillyPhoto

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A new radio system would cost the city $2.3 million, with a lifespan of 15 years. The old system, a Motorola SmartNet 3.0, was installed December 1998, and has a lifespan of 10 to 12 years.

...

Replacement discussions originally began in 2009 and Motorola officially terminated support in 2012.

How are these people still sitting on the city council?
 

PhillyPhoto

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According to the article, they've been in talks for 5 years for a replacement system, and support expired 3 years ago. Now that the SHTF, it's an "emergency"? That shows poor lack of planning by them. Furthermore, now that they are in a rough spot, they are looking for the cheap way out of the hole they've dug themselves into, instead of getting the, perhaps, better one. I understand 2009 wasn't the greatest time when it came to expenditures, but they still have coverage for another 3 years to plan, request bids and build it. Although I would think John is on to something, if this is indeed a federal system. It's probably their local equipment that failed.

As the old saying goes: "Poor Planning on your part does not constitute an Emergency on my part."
 

Stick0413

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It is just the consoles that failed not the system itself. Also a little update here about money being pulled from a bond that was to be used for a new public safety building, $2.5 million of the $7.7 million total. The public safety building is also desperately needed but they have been sitting on that bond paying interest doing nothing with the money. That is another story for another day though. Here is a link to the article in the Hopewell News.

The Hopewell News - Articles
 

Thunderbolt

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Hopewell, VA - City Council approves funds for new police radio system

HOPEWELL, Va. — After a month of waiting, the Hopewell Police Department finally has the funds allocated by the Hopewell City Council to purchase a new $2.5 million communications system. The police have been relying on a poor backup system for over 85 days. -

See more at: City Council approves funds for new police radio system - News - The Progress-Index - Petersburg, VA
After a month of waiting, the Hopewell Police Department finally has the funds allocated by the Hopewell City Council to purchase a new $2.5 milion communications system. The police have been relying on a poor backup system for over 85 days. - See more at: City Council approves funds for new police radio system - News - The Progress-Index - Petersburg, VA
After a month of waiting, the Hopewell Police Department finally has the funds allocated by the Hopewell City Council to purchase a new $2.5 milion communications system. The police have been relying on a poor backup system for over 85 days. - See more at: City Council approves funds for new police radio system - News - The Progress-Index - Petersburg, VA
 

W4UVV

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I wasn't suprised

HOPEWELL, Va. — After a month of waiting, the Hopewell Police Department finally has the funds allocated by the Hopewell City Council to purchase a new $2.5 million communications system. The police have been relying on a poor backup system for over 85 days. -

See more at: City Council approves funds for new police radio system - News - The Progress-Index - Petersburg, VA
After a month of waiting, the Hopewell Police Department finally has the funds allocated by the Hopewell City Council to purchase a new $2.5 milion communications system. The police have been relying on a poor backup system for over 85 days. - See more at: City Council approves funds for new police radio system - News - The Progress-Index - Petersburg, VA
After a month of waiting, the Hopewell Police Department finally has the funds allocated by the Hopewell City Council to purchase a new $2.5 milion communications system. The police have been relying on a poor backup system for over 85 days. - See more at: City Council approves funds for new police radio system - News - The Progress-Index - Petersburg, VA

I read and reread the article and it contains a couple of inaccuracies that I must challenge and not just accept at face value. Most of the public is not in a position to challenge any of the article's comments regarding the previous or current backup trunked radio systems but a few local scanner monitors are. I live outside the Hopewell city limits in Prince George Co. Even using HTs Hopewell can be easily received in the Tri-City area.

In my opinion, the first glaring inaccuracy is the complaint of poor audio quality. On the contrary, the Hopewell Police, (especially the $2 million a year I295 "Golden Goose" cars) Fire and Utilities Department's previous and current trs audio has excellent audio fidelity quality and is noticeably superior to any of the other area trunked radio system's audio I hear. I monitor almost daily as I do various internet activities, updates to my frequency data base and programing my Uniden 536 ans XT models.

Secondly, I have not heard any mobile with scratchy audio or his/her transmissions dropping out of the repeater or on air complaints by the dispatcher and/or mobiles regarding not being able to hear each other.

What Hopewell did not and still does not have is the capability for selective unit(s) paging.

The decision to use debt financing borrowing more millions was no surprise to me.

John
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John

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What Hopewell did not and still does not have is the capability for selective unit(s) paging.

John
W4UVV
.

Every trunk system I am familiar with has the ability to page units selectively. However the vast majority of the systems don't program this into their radios. I am sure Hopewell is the same for both the old and any new system. It is simply a matter of programming that option into the mobile and portable radios and then setting up the 'page' function on the radio consoles at dispatch.

They can also support unit to unit paging but that is harder to keep working since it is based on radio IDs and these can change as vehicles/radios are replaced. It also requires mobile/portable radios with some form of keypad or extra menu options.

Now if you are instead talking about having the ability to have 'private' talkgroups (also known as Private Call) and not paging then this is generally also included but most systems don't use it because it ties up radio frequencies and can be easily abused.

John
 

W4UVV

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Another rebuttal to the city's narrative

Every trunk system I am familiar with has the ability to page units selectively. However the vast majority of the systems don't program this into their radios. I am sure Hopewell is the same for both the old and any new system. It is simply a matter of programming that option into the mobile and portable radios and then setting up the 'page' function on the radio consoles at dispatch.

They can also support unit to unit paging but that is harder to keep working since it is based on radio IDs and these can change as vehicles/radios are replaced. It also requires mobile/portable radios with some form of keypad or extra menu options.

Now if you are instead talking about having the ability to have 'private' talkgroups (also known as Private Call) and not paging then this is generally also included but most systems don't use it because it ties up radio frequencies and can be easily abused.

John

Another rebuttal to the city's narrative.

John
W4UVV
 
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