Schuylkill co encryption

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brey1234

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Check out the following story done by Newswatch 16. What is missing from the report is the fact that according to the 911 communications director when the system is installed for fire departments all their communications will be scrambled and placed on different frequencies. That means that fire calls will not be able to be detected on a normal police scanner. The scrambled or encrypted communications is already in place for all police departments in Schuylkill County. Communications director explains that is being done for police protection. I'm just curious what scanner listeners in the county think of this move?

Schuylkill County Spends Five Million Dollars to Update Radio System | WNEP.com
 

W7FDX

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Looks like they will be using AES encryption on at least the PD side of things. Anyone know what will be happening on the FD and EMS agencies?
 

n3ouc

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From what I can tell by listening to the system, everything has been encrypted including Fire and EMS. Its a shame as there is absolutely no reason for any agency to encrypt Fire, EMS and Dispatch channels including PD.
 

One13Truck

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Fire and EMS are being encrypted as well? Wow. That's a shame. There's no need at all for the encryption. Does Skook think they are in Florida now? Seems everyone down there is in a race to go E. Well this sucks. I was just able to start picking them up again recently.
 

HM1529

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I am surprised, with the huge number of volunteer fire companies in that county, that they went for this. It just doesn't make sense for everything to be encrypted.
 

brey1234

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Counter productive?

I have the email of the 911 director and the County Commissioners. I wonder if a letter writing campaign to them would help? I am for ALL comms to be open, with the exception of drug stake outs etc...but we have to be realistic. We could ask that all dispatches be open along with all fire activity...but I wonder if that would do more harm than good. I fear that this is an emotional issue that some people would not be respectfull and that could kill any form of reason.

Another option is to email me the letters and I could "weed out" those who vulgar and demanding..( NOT my first choice because I don't want to be the pc police).Another option would be to show up at a County Commissioners meeting in mass.
What do you think?

The following is an Email I sent to the 911 director and his reply:

Scott:

Hope all is well with you and your family. I have been on medical leave and recovering from some heart issues ;-(

Anyway someone told me that all of the new police frequencies that are in place are using P-25 "modulation" and are encrypted.

That locks out law abiding citizens not knowing what's going on in their neighborhoods.

I would ask you to reconsider that decision and that at least the initial dispatch channels be transmitted in the clear. I can understand why "sensitive" communications be encrypted but I don't believe routine comm's should be secret.

The following are news reports documenting how law abiding citizens have helped law enforcement by listening to police traffic

Police arrest suspect in W-B bank robbery - Citizens' Voice.

The Davis Clipper - Teen crashes in stolen car after Syracuse chase

Police believe home invasion suspects were looking for drugs - News - The Daily Telegram - Adrian, MI - Adrian, MI

Two held after chase *:*Times Argus Online

Man, woman are arrested in restaurant robbery | Deseret News

KSL cameraman goes to the rescue | Deseret News

Then there is a police chief who encourages citizens to listen to his officers communication.

CCSO Migrates to New 800 MHz Digital Trunked Radio System


Best Regards,


Bob

P.S. There are some who say encryption is for officers safety but I have found those who say that can't document a single case
===================

Good Morning Bob,



The family is good, thanks for asking. I am glad to see you are on the road to recovery from your issues and wish you nothing but continued health. We will be taking our lead from our Police Depts. for the use of encryption. I can understand both sides of this issue, but there are just as many documented cases of when Police enter a home of a criminal and they are listening to their transmissions. I will keep you informed as we move along.



All the best to you



Scott.
 
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W7FDX

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It just makes me wonder is Northumberland county will follow in Schuylkill's plans and encrypt everything as well? That is what is going to be the deciding factor if I buy a digital scanner or not.
 

dmg1969

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I certainly disagree with encryption other than police surveillance and operations frequencies. Encrypting fire and EMS is insanity. Even when the county I used to live in (Cumberland), went to Open Scam years ago, they still maintained patches to the old low band fire dispatch frequency and UHF EMS dispatch frequency. They still do to this day and, in fact, just migrated that EMS dispatch frequency patch to a new narrow band compliant frequency. There is absolutely no need for fire and EMS comms to be encrypted.


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W7FDX

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I totally agree that the big E shouldn't be used on fire and ems channels at all. At least Philly's system they kept Fire, EMS, and PD Dispatch in the clear.
 

One13Truck

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I certainly disagree with encryption other than police surveillance and operations frequencies. Encrypting fire and EMS is insanity. Even when the county I used to live in (Cumberland), went to Open Scam years ago, they still maintained patches to the old low band fire dispatch frequency and UHF EMS dispatch frequency. They still do to this day and, in fact, just migrated that EMS dispatch frequency patch to a new narrow band compliant frequency. There is absolutely no need for fire and EMS comms to be encrypted.


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I agree 100% on this. I hate Cumberland going to Open Scam but at least they left what they did open. I'm hoping Skook will at least leave the fire/ems paging channels unless they decide to switch to that awful trend of Alpha paging down the road.

WNEP had an updated story at 18:00 today about the encryption on the radios. Hopefully now that it was out there the residents of the County will let their voice be heard on this. Of course it'll probably do as much good as peeing into a hurricane gust. But maybe it'll get some of the stuff off of the dreaded E.

I'll try to check their website later to see if the story is posted. I haven't had a chance to look yet. If anybody else gets a chance to look before I do take a look and see if it's posted yet.
 

Adam-14

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I have been monitoring public safety since the late 1960's. I have been a county 911 center dispatcher, air-medical dispatcher and am currently a hospital based non-emergency EMS dispatcher. Dispatch and monitoring is in my blood. I can't imagine going "cold turkey" like the people of Schuylkill County will be doing. (If fire and ems have not gone encrypted yet)

However.....I can see reasons why they are considering (if not already done) EMS encryption. HIPAA is the main reason that I can think of. Working for a health care agency, HIPAA is really drilled into our heads. Even signing in at the doctors office (name only, not reason) is scribbled out immediately so no one else signing in can see other patient names. EMS dispatches usually include the address, patient age, chief complaint and often past medical history. That is a lot of information given out over the air that many people may hear. Yes, the patient name is not given out, but it's probably not too difficult to figure out who the patient is and now you know they have "XX" as a medical history.

I don't agree with full police encryption. The main dispatch channels should be open, but operations channels need to be encrypted.

For fire, there is just no need for any encryption.

Your thoughts on my comments?

Thanks,
Adam-14
 

bballdawg84

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Will they be providing the news outlets with radios to monitor this new system? I was informed that was the plan for Phila. when they were considering full encryption.

This is very disturbing and I can appreciate the negative reaction of Schuylkill County scanner enthusiasts.
 

SCPD

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One thing I noticed is if a criminal is monitoring a swat teams comms I wouldn't be questioning the fact he has a scanner but how in the **** did he obtain low power non listed freqs usually fees listed in a name or sorts not feeding back to the pd. Internal leaks. If he's listening to that I'd say there's a problem inside the dept as a raid should never be re transmitted over long distances and why you typically have a incident officer monitoring both primary comms and the swat in progress and relaying for additional resources etc. If raids are being done over listed freqs and repeated there's more then a suspect listening that is a problem.
 

RayAir

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With sophisticated criminals and scanner apps it is a good idea to encrypt all public safety.
 

RichardKramer

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Encryption in Berks Co.

All the PD talk groups are encrypted on the "muffled" $60million Berks 700 Phase 2 system. I've been listening to Public Safety comms since I was 10 yrs old. Listening in gave me great respect for not only the PD, but everyone working in Public Safety. I work in security at the local dept. stores and wharehouses in the area. When a broadcast for a shoplifter in the area would be given, I would relay the description to the other guards so they could keep a lookout for them possibly entering our stores. Now we're in the dark in that respect. When there were missing people reports in the area, I would relay that info to the guards also. I live about 2 blocks from the local Turkey Hill and several other convenience stores; when they were held up and I was home, I would go out on the front porch and watch for anyone suspicious going by. The local PD new if my car was out front and they went past, they knew the actors more than likely didn't come down my way and they could concentrate their efforts more towards the City of Reading. Now they don't have that option. I really think they do not realize how many law abiding citizens listen in and want to help out. It's really a shame that they think more criminals listen in than do the law abiding public. One local PD Chief said he wants his officers to be safe and not have their location given away by someone listening in. Well, if I'm going to rob someplace, I wouldn't depend on the scanner to let me know where they are at, I would have lookouts driving around telling me realtime where they are and I would know ahead of time by keeping track of how many PD cars they have and how many are out and about. If ever I am injured in an accident involving a chase that I could have avoided by being able to listen in and avoid it; as much as I like helping the PD out, I would file a lawsuit against the agency. As much as the PD are worried about criminals listening in; I want to listen in to avoid those areas and be safe. Back to Berks Co. Phase 2 system; one of the reasons for this system was so all the agencies involved in an incident could intercommunicate. Now, with the PD being encrypted, FD and EMS still have to go through the Dispatch to contact the PD involved in the incident. Last year the FBI and local PD special ops units conducted a large scale drug intercept operation. 90% of the FBI comms were in the clear. After the arrests were made, the local newspaper pointed out that by listening in on the actors cell calls, they were able to bring the operation down. Now you would think that if the next group that would take over would stop using their cell phones for the dealings after seeing the news article and try alternate ways of operating; but no, they still used their cell phones and the 2nd group was taken down months after the first group were arrested. Another words the criminals aren't too smart, so I doubt that by listening in, especially within a trunk system with dozens of tgid's, that they would be able to avoid being caught.

Happy Monitoring, Rich Kramer
N3VMY - KAG 0096 - KPA3CI
 

cavmedic

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All the PD talk groups are encrypted on the "muffled" $60million Berks 700 Phase 2 system. I've been listening to Public Safety comms since I was 10 yrs old. Listening in gave me great respect for not only the PD, but everyone working in Public Safety. I work in security at the local dept. stores and wharehouses in the area. When a broadcast for a shoplifter in the area would be given, I would relay the description to the other guards so they could keep a lookout for them possibly entering our stores. Now we're in the dark in that respect. When there were missing people reports in the area, I would relay that info to the guards also. I live about 2 blocks from the local Turkey Hill and several other convenience stores; when they were held up and I was home, I would go out on the front porch and watch for anyone suspicious going by. The local PD new if my car was out front and they went past, they knew the actors more than likely didn't come down my way and they could concentrate their efforts more towards the City of Reading. Now they don't have that option. I really think they do not realize how many law abiding citizens listen in and want to help out. It's really a shame that they think more criminals listen in than do the law abiding public. One local PD Chief said he wants his officers to be safe and not have their location given away by someone listening in. Well, if I'm going to rob someplace, I wouldn't depend on the scanner to let me know where they are at, I would have lookouts driving around telling me realtime where they are and I would know ahead of time by keeping track of how many PD cars they have and how many are out and about. If ever I am injured in an accident involving a chase that I could have avoided by being able to listen in and avoid it; as much as I like helping the PD out, I would file a lawsuit against the agency. As much as the PD are worried about criminals listening in; I want to listen in to avoid those areas and be safe. Back to Berks Co. Phase 2 system; one of the reasons for this system was so all the agencies involved in an incident could intercommunicate. Now, with the PD being encrypted, FD and EMS still have to go through the Dispatch to contact the PD involved in the incident. Last year the FBI and local PD special ops units conducted a large scale drug intercept operation. 90% of the FBI comms were in the clear. After the arrests were made, the local newspaper pointed out that by listening in on the actors cell calls, they were able to bring the operation down. Now you would think that if the next group that would take over would stop using their cell phones for the dealings after seeing the news article and try alternate ways of operating; but no, they still used their cell phones and the 2nd group was taken down months after the first group were arrested. Another words the criminals aren't too smart, so I doubt that by listening in, especially within a trunk system with dozens of tgid's, that they would be able to avoid being caught.

Happy Monitoring, Rich Kramer
N3VMY - KAG 0096 - KPA3CI


Does the Reading Eagle have a radio like they did with the City system prior to switch over?
 

MarkPalmer

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I can't figure for the life of me why any county would want to encrypt their transmissions? A lot of police listen in while off duty, and volunteer firefighters listen in on the system too. Just about all police officers today carry cell phones with them for matters that are private.

People in counties with encrypted public service radio systems need to contact their county legislators to get the encryption removed. Taxpayer money funds these radio systems, and the public should have the rights and privileges to monitor them.

-Mark-
 
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