What's going on with RRDB??

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SCPD

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What's going on here?
Bedford PD freq? Not listed under Bedford.
Oakwood PD freq? Not listed under Oakwood.
Walton Hills PD freq? Not listed under Walton Hills.
Bedford FD is 424.225 but tagged HLCRST FD1. It's not in the Hillcrest Region. It's in the Chagrin/Southeast Region.
What's going on here?
 

SCPD

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Maybe I should have posted this in the Database Discussion Forum. I figured since it was a Cuyahoga County Ohio issue I would get "discussion" here. Maybe the RRDB is screwed up everywhere and just accepted?
 

Nasby

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I will agree with you Ed. The Cuyahoga Co. Database can be very difficult and confusing to navigate.

In addition to the examples you listed, I find that trying to figure out what system Parma, Parma Hts and Brookpark utilize can be a real challenge too.
 

fpo701

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I'll jump in here. Let's see what I can tackle.

The first place to look for anything is the main Cuyahoga County page (Cuyahoga County, Ohio (OH) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference).

If you scroll down to Brook park, Parma and/or Parma Heights, both have links to the known current systems to find each of their services. I know they each have info on multiple systems. Until someone confirm they cannot be used (no radios, consoles, etc), they have to stay in those systems. The links from the main county page should be helping with that.

As for Bedford and Oakwood, I'm really fighting a RRDB policy here. Policy states "no duplicates". So, the main dispatch channels for them are listed at the top of the Chagrin section under "Regional Law Enforcement". Any frequencies that are solely used by a specific city are in that city's section.

I do see the Chagrin region is riddled with Hilcrest tags. I don't recall changing those, so they were likely that way for years on the former Chagrin agency page and went unnoticed.

Remember, all of this information is provided by the RRDB community. None of the Ohio admins live in Cuyahoga County. We don't know what is or isn't correct. The layout as it stands now was built simply by moving existing information around and off the old agency pages. Here again, policy states no public safety in agency pages.

I'm glad you guys are noting this. Please use the submit button to help clean this up. Like I said, for all the Ohio admins know, the Bedford, Oakwood, and Walton Hills share a dispatch frequency. That's what the database says. That's what any new RR user (or scanner using RR data) would know. If it is wrong, please help us correct it.
 

SCPD

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Frank I guess it's "policy" vs "common sense". In the past If someone were to ask me "what's Oakwood PD's frequency?" I would refer them to the RRDB. But, but, but, it would not be found unless one reads ALL the descriptions or does a "find on page" from their browser (that's how I found it - and I know what their freq. is! Now I tell them the answer and don't even mention the RRDB. It's just not logical. Sorry.
 

Voyager

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Forget about the descriptions. They are being dumbed down to the point they are useless. See here: http://forums.radioreference.com/da...966-why-arent-database-names-constrained.html

And yes, policy is what it is, and that's it. I've been beat over the head with it several times already fighting changes from "XYZ county Zone 1 Police Dispatch" to "Police Dispatch". trouble is, the same county has over a dozen instances of "Police Dispatch", so you never really know who you are monitoring.

Better off to find a local who has programming, and use that like we did before there was the function to DL data from RR.
 

wise871

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I think everyone gets your point about how you feel about the database.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

wa8pyr

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I think everyone gets your point about how you feel about the database.

Yes, Voyager's feelings about the way the database is set up are pretty plain but aside from a few corrections that have come to light he's beating a dead horse.

I will reiterate Frank's comments above asking that people use the Submit button to report corrections. The only time administrators change information is when 1) a submission is received giving correct information and/or 2) the administrator knows the correct information and has verified it personally. Administrators can also change information if they just happen to see it mentioned in the appropriate forums, but that’s an unreliable way of doing things.

As regards Cuyahoga County, I will agree that it's pretty confusing. Unfortunately the layout in Cuyahoga County (along with a few other NE Ohio counties) is a holdover from a long-gone former Ohio administrator who laid things out as if everyone lived in the county and should know where the regions are. Frank has been slowly working his way through cleaning up the tangled mess said administrator left behind (and doing a fine job at it), but it's a big job and will take some time.

Cuyahoga County is one of those unusual counties that has a gazillion local entities each with it's own dispatch center and frequencies (some shared with other agencies), and no matter how it's laid out is still going to be more difficult to use than in another county with less fanatical devotion to every agency doing it's own thing. The problem is compounded by the fact that many frequencies are shared on a regional basis, and there's simply no way to make descriptions concise enough unless listings are broken out by region.

Ultimately, we have to make certain compromises in order to have a database which works for all users, not just one particular group or another, and Cuyahoga County is one of those where compromises are necessary.
 
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SCPD

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There is considerable changing going on in Cuyahoga County so the RRDB is going to get reshuffled (hopefully) as the year progresses anyway. So what's listed as accurate today (which it isn't) likely will be changing in the near future anyway.
 

Swipesy

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There is considerable changing going on in Cuyahoga County so the RRDB is going to get reshuffled (hopefully) as the year progresses anyway. So what's listed as accurate today (which it isn't) likely will be changing in the near future anyway.

One of the bad things that has happened to us scanner listeners because of the consolidation of dispatch centers, especially Chagrin Falls, is that so many different communities are now sharing the same Talkgroup that you have to listen carefully to figure out who is who.
 

KWs

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Speaking of Chagrin Valley .. Is their a listing anywhere of either radio units IDs or actual police car numbers for the Police communities dispatched by Cagrin Valley Dispatch ? I can't find any listing but if you can point me in the right direction, much appreciated. I can't figure out who is who talking .. Police wise. Fire is no problem.
 

Swipesy

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This is what I have -

Chagrin Dispatch


14470/West TG:

53XX North Randal
58XX Orange Village
76XX Highland Hills
79XX Woodmere

14492/East TG:

15XX Bentleyville
24XX Chagrin Falls (Village and Township)
35XX Gates Mills
38XX Hunting Valley
49XX Moreland Hills
82XX South Russell
 

fpo701

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Let's move on to cleaning some of the errors and out of date information.

There are a bunch of frequencies listed in the Chagrin Regional Fire section that use the alpha tag "HLCRST FD#". I could make a good guess that my predecessor had tagged these by the "number" of the channel that was heard over the radio. But, that's really just a huge guess.

What is a more appropriate way to tag these? Can I just replace HLCRST with CHGRN? If I did that, would the numbers correct? Maybe an option would be to use more descriptive names like "CHGRN FD TA" for the talkaround channel.
 

jeffb

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Let's move on to cleaning some of the errors and out of date information.

There are a bunch of frequencies listed in the Chagrin Regional Fire section that use the alpha tag "HLCRST FD#". I could make a good guess that my predecessor had tagged these by the "number" of the channel that was heard over the radio. But, that's really just a huge guess.

What is a more appropriate way to tag these? Can I just replace HLCRST with CHGRN? If I did that, would the numbers correct? Maybe an option would be to use more descriptive names like "CHGRN FD TA" for the talkaround channel.


this is how i have them listed in my scanner
'
HLCRST FD11 = GrfldHtsFD
HLCRST FD6 =GrfldHts FG
HLCRST FD5 = oakwood FG
HLCRST FD4 = Maple Hts FG
HLCRST FD14 = solon FG
HLCRST FD15-chrgnFG
HLCRST FD8= Talkaround
HLCRST FD3 = Bdfrd/ BdfrdH fg
HLCRST FD2 = Fire Dispatch - Highland Hills/North Randall/Warrensville Heights Dispatch
HLCRST FD1 =Fire Dispatch - Bedford/Bedford Heights/Maple Heights/Oakwood Village Dispatch
HLCRST FD16 = Fire Dispatch Chagrin Falls/Orange Village/Solon/Woodmere Dispatch
 

SCPD

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Well Frank of course the HLCRST tags are wrong. But so would be the CHGRN. The "correct" way would be against "policy" since the agencies that share 424.225 don't refer to anything like that in real life. You would need to indicate that each agency seperately is on that common frequency and it is F1 for each.

The 425.35 and 425.4 frequencies listed as Hazmat are referred to as FIREGROUND and I've never heard it referred to as HAZMAT although hazmat MAY at times have used those frequencies in an incident (but it was still referred to as fireground).
~~~

Edit I see it listed as far back as 2003 as HAZMAT so maybe it really is. :)

Also I see this in the 2008 version of the RRDB:

Regional Fire Dispatch Channels

Frequency Input License Type Tone Alpha Tag Description Mode Tag
424.22500 429.22500 various RM 110.9 PL 1 Bedford/Bedford Heights/Maple Heights/Oakwood Village Dispatch FM Fire Dispatch
424.07500 429.07500 various RM 110.9 PL 2 Highland Hills/North Randall/Warrensville Heights Dispatch FM Fire Dispatch
425.27500 425.27500 various BM 131.8 PL 3 Bedford/Bedford Heights Fireground FM Fire-Tac
429.10000 429.10000 various BM 127.3 PL 4 Maple Heights Fireground FM Fire-Tac
424.10000 424.10000 various BM 127.3 PL 5 Oakwood Village Fireground FM Fire-Tac
424.12500 424.12500 various BM 127.3 PL 6 Garfield Heights Fireground FM Fire-Tac
424.22500 424.22500 various M 110.9 PL 8 Talkaround FM Fire-Talk
423.57500 428.57500 WPNV956 RM 110.9 PL 11 Garfield Heights Dispatch FM Fire Dispatch
425.40000 425.40000 various BM 123.0 PL 13 Orange Village/Woodmere Fireground FM Fire-Tac
429.12500 429.12500 various BM 123.0 PL 14 Solon Fireground FM Fire-Tac
428.35000 428.35000 various BM 123.0 PL 15 Chagrin Falls Fireground FM Fire-Tac
423.77500 428.77500 various RM 110.9 PL 16 Chagrin Falls/Orange Village/Solon/Woodmere Dispatch FM Fire Dispatch

So the Alpha tags were merely the numbers from 1 to 16. Maybe the radios are really tagged like that. I have no idea but I've never heard any reference to those numbers and I've been listening to them since they were on 46.46 MHz.
 
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SCPD

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Jeffb where did you get those designations? From the database? The database is wrong and that's what we are try to straighten out.

Maybe the Hillcrest units use those designations in their radios for mutual aid to Bedford, Oakwood, Walton Hills or Maple Heights which are obviously not in any way related to "Hillcrest".

Furthermore Bedford Hts and Solon are not on the same frequencies.
 

Voyager

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If only there were a field that could support longer tags...

(now where is that flame suit...) :D
 

wa8pyr

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Not again. . .

If only there were a field that could support longer tags...

(now where is that flame suit...) :D

Yeah, we're not going down that discussion path again, either.
 
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