If 2 meters and 70cm were to suddenly disappear

rapidcharger · Jan 28, 2015

Some people have predicted that 440 will likely get usurped by corporate interests and 2 meters might also. Three questions.

1.) How do you feel about that?
2.) What do you intend to do about it?
3.) What will you do if/when we lose it?

And before you say you'll just use GMRS or FRS or MURS, it has been predicted that will be lost as well.

Discuss.

ecps92 · Jan 28, 2015

Predicted Where ? Source :roll:

Every couple of years we hear this... Hmm 220 is still around and that was going to be taken away

rapidcharger said:

Some people have predicted that 440 will likely get usurped by corporate interests and 2 meters might also. Three questions.

1.) How do you feel about that?
2.) What do you intend to do about it?
3.) What will you do if/when we lose it?

And before you say you'll just use GMRS or FRS or MURS, it has been predicted that will be lost as well.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

ko6jw_2 · Jan 28, 2015

This has been discussed in other threads. The band from 420Mhz to 450Mhz is allocated to the amateur service on a secondary basis. Government radio location services are the primary users. Also, along the Canadian border the band is also restricted. Given that the US Government is the primary and active user of the band, its not going to be usurped by anyone.

Just what commercial uses are you talking about. Most new commercial use is in the UHF spectrum on re-banded television channels. Its hard to believe that 144-148Mhz is of much interest to current commercial users.

If they really need to cram more channels into a given block of frequencies, then they should get serious about using narrower bandwidth technology like amplitude companded sideband. Forget 6.25Khz spacing an get 2.5Khz channels. You don't need digital.

Final word to amateurs, use it or lose it. We lost part of the 220Mhz spectrum, but the planned commercial uses flopped. We won't get that spectrum back.

K5MPH · Jan 28, 2015

My thinking on this is with the ham test being so easy to take thiers a lot of hams that move up the ladder very quick and get stuck on HF radio and don't stick around on the vhf and uhf bands very long and forget the other bands ,yes sooner or later the the powers to be will so come and take them away from us.Their is one thing that bugs me is when some hams use their hf radios that are putting out 100 watts just to talk simplex across town when they could be using vhf or uhf I hear it all the time,o well that's my take on it................

mciupa · Jan 28, 2015

I have the Canadian equivalent of a Tech license, so that will leave me with only 6 Metre Band up here. I like the clarity of UHF and would miss it.

K5MPH · Jan 28, 2015

ecps92 said:
Predicted Where ? Source :roll:

Every couple of years we hear this... Hmm 220 is still around and that was going to be taken away

~~If you get the right people are in this case the wrong people in the congress it won't take long..........~~

n8zcc · Jan 28, 2015

I believe there is a federal law that goes something like this, if we loose any bandwidth it must be replaced on another band. Sorry for the sketchy memory, maybe someone else will have better memory.

MTS2000des · Jan 28, 2015

rapidcharger said:
Some people have predicted that 440 will likely get usurped by corporate interests and 2 meters might also..

I am one who predicts this will happen, as will all part 90, broadcast and everything that isn't already pwned by the telecom cartels will be in the next 10-15 years.

One can deny the inevitable but it won't change the cold, hard facts. Fact is the corporations own our government. The telecom cartels were recently tasked by the current administration of making "broadband for everybody" a reality, among other race to waste projects (FirstNet for example).

The crunch to find usable radio spectrum is on. We are sitting on a gold mine, squatting, if you will.

rapidcharger said:
1.) How do you feel about that?

Obviously I am not happy at all. Amateur radio and part 90 for that matter are the last bastions of independent (from the cartels) communications services available to the public.

rapidcharger said:
2.) What do you intend to do about it?

One is to educate not only my fellow ham, but the general public, how this sucking up and fracking of our radio spectrum by the cartels is a BAD THING. It isn't just the ham bands that are at stake, you can add OTA TV to that mix too, and OTA radio. It is only a matter of time. The T-band takeback and clearing of OTA TV channels in the 600 and 700MHz bands for sale to the cartels is proof of this. I am sounding the alarm NOW while there is a sliver of hope left.

rapidcharger said:
3.) What will you do if/when we lose it?

Don't honestly know. We could be rogues, but the cartels will come down on us with their iron corporate fists and use their government shills (the FCC) to ruin our lives. Or nothing. Can't honestly say until that day comes.

ko6jw_2 said:
Government radio location services are the primary users. Also, along the Canadian border the band is also restricted. Given that the US Government is the primary and active user of the band, its not going to be usurped by anyone.
.

Your forgetting the fact that NTIA can easily (under congressional order) release/re-purpose the spectrum at any time, just as congress did with the T-band take back of 2012.

You can rest assured the powerful telecom cartel lobby has more buying power in congress than you are giving them credit for.

Do not think for a minute that "these bands are safe because the government is the primary user". The T-band takeback is a precedent that has been set, and once the cartels can show their congress shills they WANT more spectrum and WILL PAY DEARLY for it, they will get it.

Watch and see.

nd5y · Jan 28, 2015

n8zcc said:
I believe there is a federal law that goes something like this, if we loose any bandwidth it must be replaced on another band. Sorry for the sketchy memory, maybe someone else will have better memory.

There have been several House and Senate bills to give amateur radio "equivalent replacement spectrum" but I don't think they ever got anywhere.

prcguy · Jan 28, 2015

1.) How do you feel about that?

I don't believe the current 2m amateur band will change in my lifetime and I plan on being around for awhile. I don't believe the current 70cm band will be taken away but I have slightly less faith about loosing this band or parts of it.

2.) What do you intend to do about it?

If there are any official announcements from the FCC (not BS predictions) that these bands are under consideration for reuse I'll join any campaign to educate our government officials and the public on why its a bad idea.

3.) What will you do if/when we lose it?

I will do everything in my power to make the people responsible for the loss of these bands wish they were never born...
prcguy

KC0KM · Jan 28, 2015

To make things short, at least from my point of view, that is why we have the ARRL, and it is important to be a member. With the ARRL as our avicate it is unlikely that these would be taken away. I can recall not long ago there was something that was going to take part of the 70 cm band away, the ARRL stood up and pointed this out, it and was later changed to leave out the Amateur Bands. While I do use 2 m quite a bit, and I am not on 70 cm that much I do have a duel band radio in my truck (which I just finshed programming the other day), I do intend on usiung it. I do not have a 1.25 radio, but do not know if it is used much here in the Kansas City area.

n5ims · Jan 28, 2015

How about if "they" simply take all of the TV broadcast frequencies and sell them off instead. After all, most folks don't get their signals from the over-the-air signals anyway, but from cable and satellite instead so taking those frequencies away and auctioning them off would probably be a win-win. The government would get a large amount of spectrum to auction off and the broadcasters would no longer need those expensive towers and their power bills would be drastically reduced. Perhaps an extra "win" would be part of the deal since it probably would allow hams to keep their assigned bands as well.

mikepdx · Jan 28, 2015

Amateur by

RE: Losing 2m & 70cm to commercial interests

We are a signer of International treaties allocating 2m & 70cm to amateur use.
Would it not take a change to the ITU treaty and approval by Congress (treaties must have their approval)?
To other ITU members, it may be a harder sell than our bought and paid-for Congress.

ITU Regions 2 & 3 :
144.000 MHz - 148.000 MHz
420.0 or 430.0 MHz - 450.000 MHz - with add'l rules in some areas.

elk2370bruce · Jan 28, 2015

mikepdx said:
RE: Losing 2m & 70cm to commercial interests

We are a signer of International treaties allocating 2m & 70cm to amateur use.
Would it not take a change to the ITU treaty and approval by Congress (treaties must have their approval)?
To other ITU members, it may be a harder sell than our bought and paid-for Congress.

ITU Regions 2 & 3 :
144.000 MHz - 148.000 MHz
420.0 or 430.0 MHz - 450.000 MHz - with add'l rules in some areas.

If big business/corporate funding sources and PACs go to their bought-and-paid-for Republicant Congressional and Senate stooges, they'd sell us out in a heartbeat. We know that we cannot trust our elected louts to protect the interests of the average American - let alone the small amateur radio community. The ITU would have some sway in this proceedings.

MTS2000des · Jan 28, 2015

elk2370bruce said:
If big business/corporate funding sources and PACs go to their bought-and-paid-for Republicant Congressional and Senate stooges, they'd sell us out in a heartbeat. We know that we cannot trust our elected louts to protect the interests of the average American - let alone the small amateur radio community. The ITU would have some sway in this proceedings.

Yep, what he said.
This isn't conspiracy theory. Just follow the money. What happened in 2012 with the T-band takeback is real. It's GOING to happen. It will have a tremendous impact on those regions where the 470-520MHz band is relied upon for vested, established, cost effective, independent of the cartels public safety communications now take place: LA, NYC and Boston are the big areas that score to lose.

Don't think for a nanosecond if it can happen to part 90 public safety users, that it can't and won't happen to us. The telecom cartels spend MILLIONS on lobbying. How much does the ARRL spend again?

Exactly. A ripple in a toilet bowl. Getting the NTIA, ITU or whoever else needs to be bought and padded, well it only takes two things: money and time. Those are in abundant supply in the cartels' stock.

KC3ECJ · Jan 28, 2015

n5ims said:
How about if "they" simply take all of the TV broadcast frequencies and sell them off instead. After all, most folks don't get their signals from the over-the-air signals anyway,

Pretty sure alot do such as myself.

prcguy · Jan 28, 2015

Why do you have to pick on a political party? If anything its the Dumb O Craps that have taken away spectrum just to make a few $$ to help fund Barack Hussein's wild spending spree. The current FCC chairman appointed by Barack Hussein has strong ties to the cable and cell phone industry. I suspect any FCC decisions pertaining to those two topics will be bought.
prcguy

elk2370bruce said:
If big business/corporate funding sources and PACs go to their bought-and-paid-for Republicant Congressional and Senate stooges, they'd sell us out in a heartbeat. We know that we cannot trust our elected louts to protect the interests of the average American - let alone the small amateur radio community. The ITU would have some sway in this proceedings.

WQPW689 · Jan 28, 2015

n5ims said:
How about if "they" simply take all of the TV broadcast frequencies and sell them off instead. After all, most folks don't get their signals from the over-the-air signals anyway, but from cable and satellite instead so taking those frequencies away and auctioning them off would probably be a win-win. The government would get a large amount of spectrum to auction off and the broadcasters would no longer need those expensive towers and their power bills would be drastically reduced. Perhaps an extra "win" would be part of the deal since it probably would allow hams to keep their assigned bands as well.

Actually, a simple Google search would reveal any number of sources indicating that OTA antenna use is rising compared to 20 years or so ago. Articles estimate the percentage of us that have dumped cable or satellite anywhere from 6% to 19% of the TV viewing population, which translates into tens of millions of viewers.

Much of this can be attributed to internet based services such as Netflix, Hulu, MLB.com, etc. And of course, the arrogance of the cable and satellite providers. One surprising stat (not saying it's absolutely true of course), is that Hispanic viewers are very likely to be OTA users.

Doubt that part of the spectrum will be appropriated any time in the near future.

n5ims · Jan 28, 2015

KC3ECJ said:
Pretty sure alot do such as myself.

As do I, but do you really think that "they" care about us that refuse to support the satellite tv and cable-tv companies that pay them so many bribes err, campaign contributions.

prcguy · Jan 28, 2015

I would agree that over the last 20yrs a lot of people have dumped cable but most of that for satellite. DirecTV alone has gained over 20 million subscribers in the roughly 20yrs its been in existence. Add maybe another 15 mil for Dish.
prcguy

WQPW689 said:
Actually, a simple Google search would reveal any number of sources indicating that OTA antenna use is rising compared to 20 years or so ago. Articles estimate the percentage of us that have dumped cable or satellite anywhere from 6% to 19% of the TV viewing population, which translates into tens of millions of viewers.

Much of this can be attributed to internet based services such as Netflix, Hulu, MLB.com, etc. And of course, the arrogance of the cable and satellite providers. One surprising stat (not saying it's absolutely true of course), is that Hispanic viewers are very likely to be OTA users.

Doubt that part of the spectrum will be appropriated any time in the near future.

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