The Blue Angel's names are a PII violation ???

Sheesh :roll::roll::roll:
Even in the most general terms that's a huge stretch, and RR policy only states it as " in conjunction with police, fire or other public safety function". NONE of which applies to the Blues.......
Revision history of "Blue Angels Pensacola NAS Homecoming and Beach Airshows" - The RadioReference Wiki

The names of all the pilots are listed on the Blues web page, should the navy remove them for PII violation as well?

Thats just foolish...So by proxy,Shouldnt the pages that list radio/unit IDs be in violation also?

Not as long as the radio / unit IDs don't mention specific names of individuals. If there is such data, then it needs to be removed.

OK perhaps I was a bit overzealous - I can easily revert the page. However, technically speaking, assigning callsigns to names is skating very close to the rule -- even if public service isn't involved.

Mike

[edit] The page is now reverted back.

kma371 said:

The names of all the pilots are listed on the Blues web page, should the navy remove them for PII violation as well?

Click to expand...

Federal privacy standards - upon which the current PII regulations are based - would, I would imagine, not apply to the military. They have their own code of conduct, I'm sure, for things like this.

I'd rather be safe than sorry. The penalties - both to RR and, in some cases, the person who supplied the information, can be rather substantial.

Mike

ka3jjz said:

Federal privacy standards - upon which the current PII regulations are based - would, I would imagine, not apply to the military. They have their own code of conduct, I'm sure, for things like this.

I'd rather be safe than sorry. The penalties - both to RR and, in some cases, the person who supplied the information, can be rather substantial.

Mike

Click to expand...

Then remove the callsigns and not the names since those are publically accessible.

PII applies to military as well

AFNet PII breaches still a concern > U.S. Air Force > Article Display

Reporting Breach of Personally Identifiable Information (PII)

Just so I'm clear on this.

1. The "callsigns" are akin to radio IDs which are routinely published in the RR Wiki for public safety agencies, though we don't allow those lists of RIDs to include the names of specific people.

2. The real names, and bios, of the Blue Angels team members are published on the Blue Angels web site. Whether or not the U.S. Navy has violated the privacy of the team members is the Navy's concern, not ours. I don't see callsigns published in those bios, so the RR Wiki article, as it currently stands, provides a linkage between callsigns and names that isn't officially published elsewhere.

Is that a valid summary of the problem?

My gut reaction is that our Wiki article should eliminate the names of the team members, but leave the callsigns and assignments.

The main quibble, I think, is the qualification of a public safety nature for listing of PII information, as written in the user's guide. Obviously that was the only thing really in vogue at the time I wrote this, so it would appear - since the military has their own protocols on the subject - that the policy could stand a little tweaking.

I will take care of modifying that article tomorrow eve after work, if no one takes care of it sooner. Mike

Listing names of individuals in any context is a waste of time and effort. People are reassigned, positions and titles generally are not.

Now now - let's keep this civil (pun intended), and without the graphics - polite comments are fine....

Mike

Military show pilots are public recruitment figures for the military and usually operate under different guidelines. Frequently I see crew names as well as callsigns associated on the aircraft themselves, and in media interviews frequently names, rank and callsigns are mentioned.

If this were combat aircraft and not demonstration aircraft, then the more rigid PII rules should apply. IMHO, of course, since I am not the PIO for the Navy.

A five minute phone call to the Affairs office of the Blue Angels would officially answer this question.

If You look at he link for team it list No names.

The Blue Angels Team

?? Yes it does
Blue Angels: United Officers, Their Roles & Responsibilities

RonnieUSA said:

If You look at he link for team it list No names.

The Blue Angels Team

Click to expand...

My mistake, I guess I didn't look close enough.

Then there shouldn't be a problem listing them in the Wiki.

It's public anyway.

Wouldn't things be fixed and a happy medium if in the wiki it would have say,
"For more information on the Blue Angels personnel and the pilots and who flies them, click here" Then insert the link from above from ecps92 ecps92 in #14.

I mean at least every year someone would have to change the names in the wiki, but with my suggestion if someone wants to know just send them to the official accurate and up to date source!

IMHO it would solve at least situations problem.

The purpose of the RR Wiki is to provide a repository, less structured than the RR Database, of information useful to scanner listeners. Over time, the Wiki's role has expanded to include Radio IDs on trunked systems. Air show pilot callsigns are akin to RIDs.

The Wiki's policy is to not link RIDs with the names of individuals. Similarly, air show pilot callsigns in the Wiki should not link to pilots by name.

Granted, the U.S. Navy publicly provides the name and assignments of the Blue Angel pilots. If that violates the privacy of the pilots, that's the Navy's problem, not ours. On the other hand, the Navy does not provide the callsigns. The Blue Angels article in the RR Wiki is providing a linkage between callsigns and pilot names. That seems to me to run afoul of our policy.

If someone can provide a U.S. Navy source that links callsigns and pilot names, the question is moot.

Ronaldski said:

I mean at least every year someone would have to change the names in the wiki...

Click to expand...

And change the callsigns.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I think the RR Wiki article should list the callsigns and assignments, since that's information that an astute scanner listener can determine by watching and listening to a Blue Angels practice or show. By putting that information in the Wiki, the scanner listener who gleans the information can provide a service to other scanner listeners. Furthermore, the RR Wiki article should not list pilot names. A link to the team bios page on the U.S. Navy web site should suffice.

W9BU said:

Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I think the RR Wiki article should list the callsigns and assignments, since that's information that an astute scanner listener can determine by watching and listening to a Blue Angels practice or show. By putting that information in the Wiki, the scanner listener who gleans the information can provide a service to other scanner listeners. Furthermore, the RR Wiki article should not list pilot names. A link to the team bios page on the U.S. Navy web site should suffice.

Click to expand...

I just checked the Blue Angels web page. It does list the names and biographies (and photos) of the team members, but not their callsigns.

Just my opinion, but I concur that we should not be listing names or other PII per RR policy; let the Navy worry about it.

I'm of two minds about callsigns; it can be useful but it also depends on someone promptly updating the Wiki when a change is noted. Because these team members are reassigned regularly (taking their callsigns with them), a listing in the Wiki would get outdated pretty quickly if someone didn't keep on top of it.

wa8pyr said:

..... it also depends on someone promptly updating the Wiki when a change is noted. Because these team members are reassigned regularly (taking their callsigns with them), a listing in the Wiki would get outdated pretty quickly if someone didn't keep on top of it.

Click to expand...

That's why it's a wiki...

I agree with com501. The advantage to the RR Wiki is it's flexible format and ease of editing by all registered RR users. If someone goes to an air show and finds that the call signs listed in the Wiki have changed, then that user is free to correct the information.