New York City, NY: NYPD Brass say no to non issued radios

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Stick0413

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they are inspecting the radios of the officers when they are coming on duty. Who says the cops that are doing it are even on duty at the time. Really if they want to keep it up they truly can.
 

SCPD

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A little clarification

I read a link on another forum here concerning this issue.
In that link, it says some officers are leaving city radios behind in the station house, and carrying personal radios on the job.

I guess I'm wondering, are these personal radios able to tx on NYPD freqs?
If not, I can't help but wonder why officers would be out and about without a radio to shag calls, or call for help on.

Can anyone give more specifics on the type of radios involved in this?
Article I read said radios were being bought at Radio Shack.
I can understand maybe using FRS or MURS for details. Here in Detroit, I've seen DPD carrying FRS in addition to their work radios around the ballparks. But carrying a Radio Shack radio instead of the city radio bears some explaining to me.

Thanks
 

kayn1n32008

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I read a link on another forum here concerning this issue.

In that link, it says some officers are leaving city radios behind in the station house, and carrying personal radios on the job.



I guess I'm wondering, are these personal radios able to tx on NYPD freqs?

If not, I can't help but wonder why officers would be out and about without a radio to shag calls, or call for help on.



Can anyone give more specifics on the type of radios involved in this?

Article I read said radios were being bought at Radio Shack.

I can understand maybe using FRS or MURS for details. Here in Detroit, I've seen DPD carrying FRS in addition to their work radios around the ballparks. But carrying a Radio Shack radio instead of the city radio bears some explaining to me.



Thanks


I would guess that NYPD use some sort of PTT ID, DTMF, MDC-1200 , 5-tone or something else(don't know cause I don't live there) and by using a 'personal' radio, they are not setup to PTT-ID. This makes the user feel 'anonymous' leading to the kinds of childish behaviour being reported in the news stories. Yes these personal radios would be set up to transmit on NYPD frequencies.


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mlmummert

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If it's in-house, even without the ID being transmitted, isn't someone going to recognize a few voices eventually?
 

SCPD

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I read a link on another forum here concerning this issue.
In that link, it says some officers are leaving city radios behind in the station house, and carrying personal radios on the job.

I guess I'm wondering, are these personal radios able to tx on NYPD freqs?
If not, I can't help but wonder why officers would be out and about without a radio to shag calls, or call for help on.

Can anyone give more specifics on the type of radios involved in this?
Article I read said radios were being bought at Radio Shack.
I can understand maybe using FRS or MURS for details. Here in Detroit, I've seen DPD carrying FRS in addition to their work radios around the ballparks. But carrying a Radio Shack radio instead of the city radio bears some explaining to me.

Thanks

I'd imagine one or more got ahold of the programming software and then over time some would buy own equipment they felt was better or newer Before a dept got it or a fancier model. Then the info got to the ones wanting to play. I see 2 solutions. Lock the radios plugs and lock the enc keys if any and I don't see how enc would stop it if it's internal issues causing the problem but enc could help. Followed by changing the tones and locking it all down. But if it's internal they'd prob still have the issues regardless. I'd say make a example out of the ones caught and can be proven. Throw the fcc at them with fines such as interfering with emergency communications etc and suspending without pay to terminating removing certifications. Make a few examples and it'll stop. There's always someone up there I hear willing to fill the lower ends shoes with nypd that wants to Be a cop. There is no mis or technology policy or ordinance with employees? I know several entities who have ruled and regulations regarding communications and playing with the radios in any fashion with programming software. A few it's the door If you get caught.
 
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SCPD

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Wow?!?!? WTF???

Hmmm if some of the cops are condoning the outside interference, and cell phones are a problem 4 things will fix this But at a cost unless they already have equipment equipped to handle it.

1. Go p25.
2. Enc it all. Lock the keys. Which follows under federal laws regarding cracking or obtaining keys without proper authorization. Keep the in loop very limited and sign there life and soul to it. They own a house? Retirement? They could cover the time and costs for releasing keys then.
3. Change nac/tones. Lock the codeplugs.
4. Developed a in house technology inv team (part of or internal affairs) and city ordinance regarding technology use and handling, rules and punishments for reading from, writing to any city owned communication device. you go to step 1 (knocks out the budget trancievers and analog cheapies for now anyway till one comes in p25) and 2, I guarantee people will stop as nobody likes option 2.

In event of a situation fpr interop throw everyone on utacs or a city set of nyc uhf freqs designated for interop if they don't have anything in place leave those in clear only. I believe they have some city end freqs for interop already.

It sucks and sounds harsh and a waste of time but guaranteed step 2 would solve the problem Leaving only interanal issues which IA gets involved along with fcc and federal laws with enc. Unless you have approval you could be the capt lt or detective Sgt and your personal radio doesn't grant you permission to have a key just because your a cop.
 

SCPD

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Sorry if I'm still slow on this.

I would guess that NYPD use some sort of PTT ID, DTMF, MDC-1200 , 5-tone or something else(don't know cause I don't live there) and by using a 'personal' radio, they are not setup to PTT-ID. This makes the user feel 'anonymous' leading to the kinds of childish behaviour being reported in the news stories. Yes these personal radios would be set up to transmit on NYPD frequencies.

The OP has a link to an article that says officers are going to Radio Shack and buying these radios.
Sorry if I seem slow about this, but I pretty much know what the Shack sells, (or used to sell) and I'm just not quite seeing how any of their radios could be programmed to tx on public service frequencies.
 
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nyscan

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The OP has a link to an article that says officers are going to Radio Shack and buying these radios.
Sorry if I seem slow about this, but I pretty much know what the Shack sells, (or used to sell) and I'm just not quite seeing how any of their radios could be programmed to tx on public service frequencies.
Do not take what the NY Post article says as definitive. The reference to Radio Shack may have been speculative.
 

n2nov

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Some basic facts that those outside of the area may not have correct:

- analog/conventional channels, not P25 or encrypted
- "unauthorized" radios are most likely the BaoFeng variety (no codeplug needed)
- not all craziness on the various frequencies are police officers, but are civilians
- each patrol zone frequency (precincts) have multiple receivers and the data is logged as to which receiver is getting the best signal
 

mike4164

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Radio Shack does NOT sell radios that could be used for NYPD as the radios they sell are #1 not programmable by the user and #2 they are NOT on the same frequencies that the NYPD uses. Also this has been going on for years in NYC with people coming on the air and making unauthorized transmissions. They can buy radios that are not expensive that can be programmed on any channel they want thru a computer program. There are several manufacturers that make them. When I worked for NYC*EMS and FDNY/EMS I had my own radio,as did alot of people in EMS,that was field programmable and worked better than the radios we were issued.Just because there are comments that are coming over the radio does not mean it is an MOS making them. There are a few radios that have been stolen over the years and never found. The NYPD does have a special unit that can track these people down who are making the remarks over the air. It takes time but they always get caught.


Mike
Retired FDNY/EMS
HAZ-TAC
 

SCPD

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As much as you say it's been occurring I'm surprised they didn't go full scale in past to solve the problem. Most get one issue from a scanner or Un authorized key up and when upgrades come they full blown solved it if you know what I mean. But then again interference can still happen from a wacky with time and ability. But knocks 95 percent of it out. If not that 99 percent.
 

SCPD

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Some basic facts that those outside of the area may not have correct:

- analog/conventional channels, not P25 or encrypted
- "unauthorized" radios are most likely the BaoFeng variety (no codeplug needed)
- not all craziness on the various frequencies are police officers, but are civilians
- each patrol zone frequency (precincts) have multiple receivers and the data is logged as to which receiver is getting the best signal

I knew nypd wasn't p25. But more of suggestions thrown to solve issue by seeing what others have done to combat it if it's been a never ending occurrence nightly and daily for years. Granted p25 could have the problem but If you find a 40 dollar p25 unit let me know as I'd like to throw them in my collection.

Exactly what I thought was more likely the culprit As 35 bucks anyone has. I doubt any upper brass would have a rat shack radio or frs radio and if so he could shut it off problem gone nothing but in the mind effect. Turn it off if it's a frs problem Gone put it out of mind nothing but feelers hurt. So most likely a wouXon baofeng or other various rice burner radio. (Not knocking the radios though since I own one next to higher end equip)

I know the older ht and jedi radios couldn't have locked codeplugs with models they used. The newer equip they went with couldn't be locked anyway? I'd imagine the tones are the same as 20 years ago? I forget which brand they started going to its at the tip of my tongue I recall reading in past what they started using but Im sure as large as nyc is there's many older units around as I seen pictures still of some carrying the older equip.

I'd imagine some of the other officers thought things were amusing but after while it invites the non authorized users to chime in on the action if they get ability and crazy mindset to do so.

I figured that part before they could track a problem down if it kept on going continuous in a given shift in a particular precinct or district. I'd imagine though most the time it's spread out and short. just takes time in those cases to pin point.
 

pinballwiz86

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What's all this ENC talk? No thanks.

I think the NYPD brass has nothing better to focus on. Shame.
 

Robinsmark

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NYPD radios

There are a few radios that have been stolen over the years and never found. The NYPD does have a special unit that can track these people down who are making the remarks over the air. It takes time but they always get caught.


Yeah! Some 15 years ago I had some guy come into our shop with what was obviously a stolen NYPD Motorola Saber. He wanted in programmed on VHF Hi frequencies, and I explained to him that it was a UHF radio, so no can do. Before I gave it back to him I disabled the TX PL on a handful (but not all) of the repeaters in the radio. I did not want it to be too obvious what I did, although I doubt that he would have noticed. He went away and did not come back.
 

radioman2001

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This problem is nothing new, back in the day someone on NYCEMS had a Laugh Box. Played it for hours, drove the dispatchers nuts even to the point of screaming at the person saying they had their voice on a recording. Really not much use, but showed the frustration of the dispatchers who mearly shut the mixer off for hours at a time. NYPD had problems in the 80's with Icom-16 portables on precient frequencies. The fix back then was to use a PL code that the Icom couldn't do, and in a really bad area for radios being interfered with, they changed the input to a non-standard frequency.
I doubt it's civilians doing it as they would have top be in the local area and actually know the personnel they are harassing. All in all this nothing more that the newspapers making something out of nothing as usual.

Off topic mike4164 was that your shield number (4164) mine was 4333.
 

namhcor

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Interference and jamming have been common on NYPD repeaters for years. One of the main guys identified in the past doing the jamming was Bruce "Barking Dog" Williams N2YHI in Queens. Dan Delise is another player. This is old news.
 

902

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There are a few radios that have been stolen over the years and never found. The NYPD does have a special unit that can track these people down who are making the remarks over the air. It takes time but they always get caught.


Yeah! Some 15 years ago I had some guy come into our shop with what was obviously a stolen NYPD Motorola Saber. He wanted in programmed on VHF Hi frequencies, and I explained to him that it was a UHF radio, so no can do. Before I gave it back to him I disabled the TX PL on a handful (but not all) of the repeaters in the radio. I did not want it to be too obvious what I did, although I doubt that he would have noticed. He went away and did not come back.

Years ago when I was in two-way in NJ, I had a guy who brought his gypsy cab from the Bronx over to the shop to install a Motorola radio. Warning sign #1, it had a hand-held control head. Warning sign #2, the radio had a security housing with a Medeco key. Warning sign #3, just about all of the frequencies in the radio were to the right of the NOAA weather channel (back when it was still up).

That was a "why don't you have a seat over there?" moments. Fortunately, I worked for honest guys who wanted to keep their integrity and their relationships with the various clients. Frequencies were recognized and dimes were dropped. About 5 minutes later, the locals showed up to ask the guy some questions and took the radio into evidence.

As it turns out, there was a break-in to a car a few months earlier at a parking lot and someone pulled the whole thing out. It got sold from person to person and this poor slob ended up with it. He really didn't know where it came from, just wanted it for his car service.

That wouldn't be the only time, and a number the technicians who worked there ended up testifying in court as witnesses.

radioman2001 said:
...problems in the 80's with Icom-16 portables on precient frequencies. The fix back then was to use a PL code that the Icom couldn't do, and in a really bad area for radios being interfered with, they changed the input to a non-standard frequency.
So that's the backstory as to why they were all reshuffled. I was wondering about that.
 
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