NOAA not on 162.550 anymore

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Analogrules

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Although I hardly listen to NOAA (weather channel app is much more accurate), I just noticed that 162.550 is off the air for the NYC area. Does anyone know why? Just curious.
 

62Truck

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If I recall correctly I think they were causing interference to the coast guard.
 

Analogrules

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Oh ok. Did they move to another frequency for NYC? I am hearing NOAA on other nearby frequencies, but sound weaker and further away.
 

Analogrules

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Thanks eps92. I didn't see that thread initially since I can only see the latest 2 pages of threads on this forum. It seems NOAA has been going back and forth from active to inactive over the past two years. It is sure taking them a long time to work out the kinks.
 

Voyager

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Are you sure they didn't just change frequencies? They will occasionally do that to avoid co-channel interference.
 

Analogrules

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Yeah, there is no NYC NOAA currently on the air. However, I can pick up the Riverhead station on my Baofeng Ham radio, but not on my scanners.
 

n2nov

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From yesterday's Twitter feed:


@NWSNewYorkNY · 20 hours ago

KWO-35 NOAA Weather Radio Transmitter in NYC is out of service. Time of restoration is unknown at this time. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 

Voyager

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Sorry for the inconvenience.

Really? A life safety transmitter is down and they say "Sorry for the inconvenience."???

Oh - sorry you got stuck in the path of a tornado with no warning. Bummer.

That's like saying Boston had a little snow squall, but no big deal.

Shouldn't they have backup transmitters and backup antennas for such a mission critical system?
 

jaspence

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NOAA 162.55

I know they are using higher output, but we have two amateur transmitters, one on 146.92 and the other 146.96 that do not interfere with each other. I also know of another situation on 147.00 and 147.04 that works fine. Perhaps they need to check radiation patterns, both transmit and receive, as a possible solution.
 

Voyager

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When they say interference, it's likely a spur from a bad transmitter. Still, a replacement should drop right in. And yes, they typically run 500 to 1000W. Still, peanuts for a life safety system.
 

Essexscan

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I heard last week the outage was due to Verizon Phone lines being damaged between the tower and station. Not sure if its still a copper line or they were switched to fiber. NOAA also had mentioned it on the outage page.

Almost feel vulnerable when NOAA KWO35 is out,like we're n a Nuclear winter LOL
 

MStep

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Losing KWO-35 is like losing an old friend. For someone who has been monitoring VLF - UHF frequencies for 50+ years, the NOAA voices (the human ones of many years ago, and even the newer digital voices) were like listening to reassuring old friends.

Even in the 1960's, when monitoring some of my favorite FDNY VHF dispatch frequencies, you would occasionally here some bleed-in from the KWO-35 transmitter. This might something to do with icing conditions on the KWO-35 antenna, or other technical issues.

I suspect that the curtailment of KWO-35 goes beyond interference on CG ch 16. And I would think that KWO-35 provides such a critical service that rather than moving the transmitter from Rockefeller Center to Times Square, they could have moved it somewhere further into Northern New Jersey, perhaps along the Palisades, where they would still good saturation of the NYC area while mitigating the interference on other channels.

Let's hope that they find a solution soon--- perhaps reassigning it to another NOAA frequency that would still be compatible with all the weather service alert radios would help resolve the issue. In fact, I recall hearing a test of KWO-35 last year on 162.400 for about 15 minutes duration.

Hope they can get these issues resolved.
 

w2lie

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Locating the outage information is at the top of the NOAA webpage for our area. Just go to the noaa.gov website, put in your zip code, and when the local NOAA site shows up ( New York, NY ), the outage bulletin and updates are located at the top of the page.

Here is the latest:
Code:
000
NOUS41 KOKX 180309
PNSOKX
CTZ009-NJZ004-006-103>108-NYZ069>075-176>179-280500-

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY
1008 PM EST TUE FEB 17 2015

...PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT...

...NEW YORK CITY TRANSMITTER...KWO-35 IS OUT OF SERVICE...

THE NEW YORK CITY NOAA WEATHER/ALL HAZARDS RADIO...FREQUENCY 
162.550...IS OFF THE AIR UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE DUE TO AN OUTAGE OF
THE AUDIO FEED TELECOMMUNICATIONS LINE BETWEEN THE NATIONAL
WEATHER SERVICE IN UPTON, NY AND THE TRANSMITTER IN TIMES SQUARE.

PHONE COMPANY TECHNICIANS ARE CURRENTLY WORKING TO RESOLVE THIS
PROBLEM. 

$$
 

radioman2001

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They should move it to the Armstrong Field Labs Tower in Alpine New Jersey. That would cover all of NYC, Nassau, Suffolk, New Jersey out to the Delaware Gap and down to Philly, up the Hudson on both sides up to near Albany, and it would also mean they probably would not have to transmit at such a high power. The buildings on NYC cause quite a degradation of signal somewhere in the order of 34db. If my memory serves me correctly from our license applications on Marine 25 and 26 for our former Broadway site in Manhattan.
 

902

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I know they are using higher output, but we have two amateur transmitters, one on 146.92 and the other 146.96 that do not interfere with each other. I also know of another situation on 147.00 and 147.04 that works fine. Perhaps they need to check radiation patterns, both transmit and receive, as a possible solution.
That's not what's happening. Midian has a good writeup here. It might get a little deep, but just follow along because it explains it pretty well. I also put some technical stuff at the bottom of the page in case anyone wants to learn more about the phenomenon.

A very short synopsis - There is a mathematical mixing product where NOAA's transmitter and another station produce a signal on 156.8000. Sometimes that can be mitigated with circulators and harmonic filters, but in a city, the mix can be happening at ANY non-linear junction. Given sufficient power levels and a very efficient receiver on 156.800 (you really, really do want a sensitive receiver on that frequency), the smallest signal can be detected. Add to that, the constant robotic chatter from NOAA and digital buzzing from the other station and you have something that is not only menacing to possible signals, but also fatiguing to the radio operator who has to "maintain watch" on VHF Channel 16. According to a previous press release, they tried some mitigation strategies, but they did not seem to work. In defense of NOAA and anyone else involved, NYC is one of the densest RF environments on the planet and can be a site manager's nightmare.

Putting the transmitter in Alpine could be good, but it would potentially increase the noise floor in an area where VHF is heavily used. Maybe West Orange (Sadlon's tower, where Channel 68 used to be), Todt Hill, or the new WTC? Or, maybe move Channel 16 (and even that might not solve the mix, depending on signal strength and where the mixing is occurring).

We heard KWO35 for many years, but I've seen letters going back and forth to NOAA and OEM that indicate that RCA had no emergency power, so it was a false sense of security. The greatest thing was that Ed, N2BYN-SK ("N2 Blow Your Nose," :lol:), used to be one of the guys on the mic recording the forecasts. I don't think he could have gone on a repeater in the NYC area and not get recognized immediately.

Anyway, I think the mode they're using right now is that the transmitter is controlled down but can come up to send the SAME signal and warning message (that's the way it was the last time I went home to visit). If that's the case, it should be no different than a fire department alerting message. You just can't tap the button to hear the forecast when there isn't an active warning.

Technical stuff part 1
Technical stuff part 2
 
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