Maybe a crazy question form a noob.....

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Brasso

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So here's the deal. I know nothing about Ham radio. I've been doing a little reading about the Tech license but that's about it. I'm a police officer also. Our local departments, state-county-city, all use different frequencies to talk on and we can't hear each other. So I was thinking about getting a scanner. But then I thought, why not get a radio instead. I was looking at the Yaesu radio's and they can scan, although not transmit, in the police bands (700-999mhz). If I got a Tech license, I could use the radio to scan while I'm patrolling and in my off time I could talk on the lower bands.

Now my question, which may sound silly, but I'm confused regarding the nomenclature regarding 2m, 6m, 10m, 70cm, etc. If for instance, I got a Yaesu RT60, which I believe is a 2m radio, does that mean I can only transmit on a certain set of frequencies and not on the others? or is it simply a matter of hooking up a different length antennae to it? If I attach a longer anntenae can I talk on 10m? Maybe what I'm asking is so far off it doesn't make any sense?

I understand that the there are difference frequencies associated with different antennae lengths, but does that mean you have to have specific radios also?

Can someone explain?

Thanks.
 

mmckenna

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The radios themselves are frequency dependent, so you need to have the right radio to transmit/receive on the correct bands.
The antenna is important, but it won't dictate which frequencies the radio works on .

As for using an amateur radio as a scanner, most of them will do it, but they often don't scan as fast as a purpose built scanner. Often, their receiver performance can suffer a bit well outside the amateur radio bands, like the 700-999MHz you mentioned.

In addition, you'd need to know exactly what system the surrounding agencies use. Most amateur radios only receive FM analog up that high. You might find that the surrounding agencies use digital and/or trunking modes. Most, if not all, would be incompatible with an amateur radio.

You might be best served by a dedicated scanner. I know many departments that use them as a solution to hear surrounding agencies. Most use a dedicated mobile scanner mounted in the car with a good external antenna.

Also, make sure you check with your agency about this. Some don't like officers using non-issued radios on the job.
 

n5ims

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So here's the deal. I know nothing about Ham radio. I've been doing a little reading about the Tech license but that's about it. I'm a police officer also. Our local departments, state-county-city, all use different frequencies to talk on and we can't hear each other. So I was thinking about getting a scanner. But then I thought, why not get a radio instead. I was looking at the Yaesu radio's and they can scan, although not transmit, in the police bands (700-999mhz). If I got a Tech license, I could use the radio to scan while I'm patrolling and in my off time I could talk on the lower bands.

Now my question, which may sound silly, but I'm confused regarding the nomenclature regarding 2m, 6m, 10m, 70cm, etc. If for instance, I got a Yaesu RT60, which I believe is a 2m radio, does that mean I can only transmit on a certain set of frequencies and not on the others? or is it simply a matter of hooking up a different length antennae to it? If I attach a longer anntenae can I talk on 10m? Maybe what I'm asking is so far off it doesn't make any sense?

I understand that the there are difference frequencies associated with different antennae lengths, but does that mean you have to have specific radios also?

Can someone explain?

Thanks.

Remember that it's not just frequencies that matter, but also what types of signals are being transmitted since the radio will need to be compatible with them as well. The typical VHF/UHF Ham radio will pick up standard analog signals (verify that they'll work on the 700/800 MHz signals, but many newer ones will) in receive only mode. They won't work on P-25 digital signals (not even those digital D-Star ones, it's a different kind of digital).

They also won't work on trunking systems like Huntsville Public Safety Trunking System, Huntsville, Alabama - Scanner Frequencies (although they may pick up individual transmissions, they won't track the talkgroup so you'll end up with a transmission from the PD followed by one from the Sewer and Water folks followed by one from the dog catcher). Even worse would be the trunked P-25 systems, especially those using Phase-II systems like Alabama First Responder Network Trunking System, Varies, Alabama - Scanner Frequencies. Only the high end professional radios will work on them and it's nearly impossible to program those to work correctly without having them officially programmed to be part of the system (there are some very new, high end scanners that will work on them though).

You are correct that antenna length is tied to frequency (it's also tied to antenna design so you can't just say longer is better, or longer is worse, or even that longer is for lower frequencies and shorter is for higher frequencies). To help in this regard, they do make antennas that work on multiple bands (you do trade off "gain", "bandwidth", or a few other things, but that's a different story). If you avoid the VHF-Low bands (10M - 28 MHz, 6M - 50 to 54 MHz for example), you can find antennas that will work quite well for transmitting on 2 meters (144 - 148 MHz) and 70 cm (420 - 450 MHz) and receive over a wider range of nearby frequencies (and if you select carefully, will also cover the 700/800/900 MHz bands).

Looking at the Huntsville AL area in the RR Database, it looks like your best bet would be the ham radio of your choice and one of the newest high-end scanners from Uniden or Whistler (but verify that they'll work on the P-25 Phase II trunking systems). They won't be cheap, but should do what you need. Think $500 + for them although you may find them on sale for less.
 

Brasso

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Ok.

Well, thanks. I'm now more confused than before. LOL

But I understand that what I'm thinking of doing won't work. I guess I need to read up on "trunking" and "P25". I have no idea what those are.
 

W8RMH

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Thirty or more years ago it was common to have scanners in police vehicles. This was one of the early inter-operational systems.

We would put the frequencies of other departments in our scanners and this way we could talk to each other by listening to each other 's frequency. Talk on one an listen on another. We even used CBs to talk to each other from time to time, and to talk-around dispatch. We would even remove the portable's antennas allowing us to communicate short range but not to dispatch. Not recommended though as it can damage the radios.

Of course as previously stated this would not work on the modern trunked and P25 systems, but if you use conventional frequencies it does work.

Of course if your agency is using these modern systems there should already be a way to talk between agencies.
 
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rapidcharger

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Welcome to the forum!
Others have given you some great answers so far but I will try to add to it. I am known for my short, concise answers. I have a bit of a reputation for that. :wink:
I'm a police officer also. Our local departments, state-county-city, all use different frequencies to talk on and we can't hear each other. So I was thinking about getting a scanner. But then I thought, why not get a radio instead. )))

Ok. First things first. While it may be possible to monitor, a growing number of police departments have migrated to digital ENCRYPTED radio systems that cannot be monitored. For whatever reason, the police did not want the public being able to listen in on them (you I guess:D ) so that has spelled the end of the hobby for millions of people :(
So just because you hear it on your department-issued radio doesn't mean it can be monitored with either a scanner/receiver or tranceiver. That said, it may very well be possible to monitor on a tranceiver/radio (not just a scanner) if you wanted to.

In order to answer that with certainty, we will need to know where you're located to determine what type of radio system you want to monitor is using.

((( I was looking at the Yaesu radio's and they can scan, although not transmit, in the police bands (700-999mhz). )))

Yes it is true. They can receive in those frequency ranges, but whether or not you will be able to receive what you want, depends on the agency you want to listen to. Another example aside from the encryption that a lot of police departments are using, another increasingly popular radio system is trunked. The ham tranceivers can't follow the trunking as it moves from one frequency to the next. SOME scanners can. Also Ham tranceivers are mostly analog. None of them will monitor the various public safety digital systems including the P25 digital standard that many police department have migrated to leading much to the disappointment of scanner hobbyists. Again, not all. It just depends on where you are.


((( If I got a Tech license, I could use the radio to scan while I'm patrolling and in my off time I could talk on the lower bands.)))

You can use the radio to scan even without a license. You only need a license to transmit. As someone else said you might want to get permission before installing one in your department issued unit.


((( If for instance, I got a Yaesu RT60, which I believe is a 2m radio, does that mean I can only transmit on a certain set of frequencies and not on the others?)))

Yes. A 2 meter only radio will only transmit in the 2 meter ham band, which is 144-148.
Many radios have more than one band.
They do usually receive outside of their transmit range.


((( If I attach a longer anntenae can I talk on 10m? )))

The antenna is important but antenna alone won't let you talk outside of the band the radio was designed to transmit.

(((
I understand that the there are difference frequencies associated with different antennae lengths, but does that mean you have to have specific radios also?)))

No. You can use different brand antennas with different brand radios. It is important to get a decent antenna that is tuned for the band you want to transmit on. If you don't, you may not have very good signal out or in and you may damage your radio. For example, using a 10 meter antenna on 2 meters will not give you very good performance and could damage your radio if you transmit with it for too long.
 

MTS2000des

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Yes. A 2 meter only radio will only transmit in the 2 meter ham band, which is 144-148.
Many radios have more than one band.
They do usually receive outside of their transmit range.

and according to a local dealer not to far from his posted location, many ham radios can be made to transmit outside the ham bands, for a nominal fee of course:

MARS/CAP Modification for VHF/UHF radios
 

Brasso

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Huntsville, AL
Thanks guys. We do use trunking units, although I always thought that just meant that the "radio" was in the trunk and just the control head was up front. I guess it means more than that.

Oh well.
 

N8IAA

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Thanks guys. We do use trunking units, although I always thought that just meant that the "radio" was in the trunk and just the control head was up front. I guess it means more than that.

Oh well.

Radio in the trunk:lol:
Go to the Radio Reference database. Click on AL, click on Madison county and scroll to the bottom of the page.
It will show you the trunked systems in the county.
There is one for the statewide system, which is P-25, Phase II which only certain scanners will receive. Do understand, however, that if there is an 'E' the TGID will be encrypted, it shows a 'T', it is Phase II, and if it shows a 'D', it can be heard by scanners that decode Phase I, P-25.
You may want to as a moderator to move this thread to the Alabama state forums for better answers. Just click on the red and white triangle in the upper right corner of your original post and as them to move it.
HTH,
Larry
 

Tracker44

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Hello Brasso, your Yaesu FT60R hand held is a very nice duel band (2Meter) (440 MHZ) rig . Its a great medium price robust little hand held rig when compared to some out there today. I have one and really like it.
Go ahead and get your Ham Licence . Its a great hobby for life and has many different aspects that you can work with.
If you are in the Huntsville Alabama area , they have a great Amature Radio club there.
The Birmingham Hamfest is next week end , put on by (BARC) Birmingham Amature Radio Club, come and enjoy.
Antenna size in relation to frequency is inverse. The higher the Freq. the shorter the antenna. The lower the Freq. the longer the antenna in a balanced system. But there are ways and means of modifying that standard.
Take Care ------Tracker44
 
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