Is Henn. Co. going to Phase 2

Anyone have inside information now that the FCC has eliminated the mandate?

I have absolutely no inside information and rely on what I can find using google. This report is now more than a year old.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ecn/pr...s/minnesota-armer-and-ng911-funding-study.pdf Dated February 11, 2014

MnDOT constantly monitors the levels of voice traffic on the system, and reports that there are very few areas of concern within the system where traffic levels occasionally cause any concerns with the system users. As such, there are no near-term plans to begin conversion of the system to Phase 2 operation, though the majority of the State’s 800 MHz repeater stations would be capable of Phase 2 operation. This is not necessarily the situation within the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area, where a large number of the older STR stations are still being used, and it is within the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area that traffic congestion problems are more likely to be experienced in the future. Nearly all the subscriber units on the system would need to be replaced before ARMER could migrate to Phase 2 operation.

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Thanks. That report is prior to the October 2014 removal of the mandate so it would seem to reflect short term intentions rather than plans related to the Jan 1 2017 mandate or removal.

At least it indicates that they are aware of the costs and would prefer to avoid such. And thanks for finding that quote in 191 pages of report.

ARMER is 800 MHz. I can't find any reference to there ever having been any sort of mandate for 800 MHz. Can you provide a link?

The two scanners you asked about elsewhere are both capable of receiving Phase II.

Each radio costs around $3,000 on average. Given the number of users in the Metro area, some serious money would be needed. Most politicians have the mindset "If it ain't broke, don't spend the money to fix it".

My guess is that as new radios are needed, they'll get Phase II capable radios, but still use them in Phase I. Then at some point after a good portion of their radios are Phase II, they'll bite the bullet and replace the remainder.

johnmoe1 said:

ARMER is 800 MHz. I can't find any reference to there ever having been any sort of mandate for 800 MHz. Can you provide a link?

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You are right. My ignorance is showing and I find it near impossible to figure out all these terms.


http://forums.radioreference.com/co...deadline-700-mhz-public-safety-licensees.html

P25 Phase 2 Forum - More information about P25 Phase 2.

I missed that ARMER is 800 MHz and Phase 2 is 700 MHz which makes me wonder why they wrote the above report about Phase 2 for Minn. if we are only 800 MHz.

Makes me miss the old days of scanning I grew up with in the early 1970s. Boy was that simple!

ofd8001 said:

The two scanners you asked about elsewhere are both capable of receiving Phase II....

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You are correct, but as I am finding, the 536 still has a host of defects and the 996 is so new that Freescan is still in beta and I am concerned that it too will have defects. I was trying to see if I really needed Phase 2 or could get by with an older model.

If I recall right the final outstate counties are just now getting on ARMER. It would seem a waste of equipment and other resources to even think about moving to Phase II...

But politicians are known to throw money at worse projects...

chas0039 said:

You are correct, but as I am finding, the 536 still has a host of defects and the 996 is so new that Freescan is still in beta and I am concerned that it too will have defects.

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I'm pretty happy with the two 536s I have. From time to time there is some simulcast distortion, but I suspect the 996P2 might have that too. If there are other issues, I haven't seen them.

I believe the 996P2 is a 996XT modified to decode Phase II along with a few other things, such as cable (no more serial cable). The 536s I have are way better at simulcast decode than my 996XT.

Plus the Siren App for the 536 is a great benefit/feature and will be even better as time goes along by expanding the 536 capabilities. When it is all done, you'll have the ability to "remote in" to your home scanner via your smart phone, essentially giving you a portable scanner.

So unless money is an issue, the 536 is a better investment.

If it were not for the display issue, I would agree. But I just can't see owning a 436 or 536 and waiting to see if the display would fade or not. Especially if it went out of warranty.

My apologies to the doom and gloom predictors, but many agencies in Hennepin County have had the needed equipment to go to Phase 2 for over a year and haven't.
We do not have band congestion issues in the MSP area or MN in the 800 spectrum that would be the driver for a migration to Phase II. Despite what many think, public safety generally has many better things to worry about than "scanner-land."
There are still physical upgrades to ARMER that would need to be done to enable Phase II, not just software updates (which also have significant cost). There are many agencies that have recently purchased XTS series radios and there are many counties that are on 15 year replacement cycles for their equipment (Anoka County went live in 2005 and are just beginning to talk about replacement of their Spectra and XTS equipment). There are many resources that will have to remain Phase I such as interop talkgroups. There are many metro PSAPs that haven't even begun to apply for MCC7500 consoles (Edina, Minneapolis, St. Louis Park) and many that are having trouble getting the capital monies for migration (Ramsey Co, Dakota Co, Scott Co, Anoka Co, North EMS, White Bear Lake, East MRCC, Bloomington, Minnetonka, Carver Co, Ridgeview EMS, Metro Transit).
The only Metro entities that have migrated completely to MCC7500 or comparable are MSP, Mn/DOT, HCSO, Hennepin EMS, Allina EMS, Eden Prairie and MSP Airport. Paired with that, the only entities that have a completely APX or comparable portable and mobile fleet is Eden Prairie. Everyone has some late generation spectra's and XTS's floating around.

If it were to happen, I would suspect that we get at least 5 years of lead time on the issue.
We unfortunately are no longer in the world of unlimited money for fueled by HSEM fears.

The ARMER system we have here in MN is very robust and working well. My county has been on the system for only a couple of years and I don't see where the "powers that be" want to spend money to "update" radio gear again -- maybe in 15-20 years.

Why fix something that isn't broken?

blue5011 said:

The ARMER system we have here in MN is very robust and working well. My county has been on the system for only a couple of years and I don't see where the "powers that be" want to spend money to "update" radio gear again -- maybe in 15-20 years.

Why fix something that isn't broken?

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Ahh, but we are talking about politicians here aren't we....