Albany, NY- Amtrak police need access to emergency radio frequencies, Schumer says

KAA951 · May 10, 2015

Amtrak police need access to emergency radio frequencies, Schumer says

ALBANY, N.Y. - Sen. Charles Schumer says a wrinkle in federal law is keeping Amtrak police from being able to access the emergency radio frequencies used by other first responders.
The New York Democrat says Sunday that he's urging the Federal Communications Commission to change their policy of treating Amtrak police differently than other law enforcement and emergency management agencies.

Schumer Demands Amtrak Police Get Emergency Radio Frequencies Access « CBS New York

coolrich55 · May 11, 2015

Is it as bad as it sounds? I know in New London CT, I've heard Amtrak PD talk directly with NLPD on NLPD's own radio system. At that time it was UHF. Now NLPD is P25 trunked. Not sure if Amtrak can use that system.

K2KOH · May 11, 2015

Not at all. Schumer just saw a microphone...whenever he sees a microphone he just has to say something. He truly is an imbecile. Most times, Amtrak will use local police frequencies. As for the trunked system, there is a good chance their cars are equippped with a trunking system portable for the officers to use. I know here in Putnam County MTA Police are equippped with the Sheriff frequencies and the 911 dispatch frequencies.

coolrich55 · May 11, 2015

Any excuse to spend more money, I'm sure. The media is just as dumb for not calling him out on what he said.

RF-Burns · May 11, 2015

There isn't a radio made on the market today that would allow all police frequencies and systems to be programmed in for the entire state and or country where Amtrack operates. With municipalities constant upgrades to their radio systems this task would simply be impossible to complete. Let's look at Western NY just for an example.

Monroe County - UHF P25
Genesee County - 800Mhz Harris Phase II Trunking
Wyoming County - VHF
Livingston County - VHF
Ontario County - 800Mhz Harris Phase 1 Trunking
Orleans County - 800Mhz Harris Phase 1 Trunking
Wayne County - VHF
Niagara County - UHF
Erie County - UHF P25

This is just the Northern part of Western NY. This does not include all the departments that use Kenwood Trunking Systems, Mototrbo, EDACS, and so on.

NYS does not have a Statewide Radio System like most states due to the political BS of NYS Democrats. They tried once and failed miserably with the former Tyco now Harris

MTS2000des · May 11, 2015

Motoman55 said:
There isn't a radio made on the market today that would allow all police frequencies and systems to be programmed in for the entire state and or country where Amtrack operates.

An APX8000 would give them access to just about every P25 trunking or conventional network in the entire country, phase 1/2, Smartnet/Smartzone analog, conventional, all encryption supported. VHF, UHF full range and 700/800. Not some giant brick either.

Sure they are expensive, but still less than the cost of some stupid asinine Schumer supported FirstNet nonsense.

KAA951 · May 11, 2015

MTS2000des said:
An APX8000 would give them access to just about every P25 trunking or conventional network in the entire country, phase 1/2, Smartnet/Smartzone analog, conventional, all encryption supported. VHF, UHF full range and 700/800. Not some giant brick either.

Sure they are expensive, but still less than the cost of some stupid asinine Schumer supported FirstNet nonsense.

The problem then becomes the programming. Try to coordinate frequencies, CTCSS, system keys, encryption etc. with all those agencies would be ridiculous! I have coordinated programming of subscriber units that operate on 4 trunking systems plus conventional- nearly impossible to keep up with! About the time you get it all programmed, one of the systems changes something! Add encryption to that and...

haleve · May 11, 2015

This Isn't About Schumer

Anybody notice that Amtrak CEO Joe Boardman or even APD Chief Polly Hansen have made no statements concerning this so called yet to be proven blatant refusal by the powers to be to allow APD access to the local, county & states law enforcement communications interoperability infrastructure?

PJH · May 12, 2015

No, its not difficult as you think it is. Actually, its pretty easy.

Wide area system do not change as often as people think they do.

I have a legitimate multistate radio, both conventional and trunked systems installed, and its only needed to be updated once in 3 years. That change took 5mins to update.

KAA951 said:
The problem then becomes the programming. Try to coordinate frequencies, CTCSS, system keys, encryption etc. with all those agencies would be ridiculous! I have coordinated programming of subscriber units that operate on 4 trunking systems plus conventional- nearly impossible to keep up with! About the time you get it all programmed, one of the systems changes something! Add encryption to that and...

Thunderknight · May 12, 2015

Actually NPSTC has been working on this issue for a while. The issue has to do with part 90 eligibility and access to interoperability channels.
This is from 2014: NPSTC Supports Railroad Police Access to Public Safety I/O Channels | National Public Safety Telecommunications Council

gesucks · May 12, 2015

This is very real and we have been working this with DHS OEC, NPSTC and FCC for atleast 3 years on this. Since Railroads (and there for railroad Police) are not licensed as Public safety frequencies, they are not legally able to use any of the INTEOP channels in the NIFOG. Any channel they use as listed above, such as Monroe County, they must have a written MOU to operate on. It is a huge issue. It took Amtrak almost 4 years to get an MOU signed and in place with the US Capitol Police. They delay is on the legal side on the railroads.

This is a very real issue. Before everyone blows this out of the water please understand what the issue is and why we are fighting this problem

PJH · May 12, 2015

MOU's, especially with .gov agencies, takes time. I know first hand. There is still nothing wrong with railroad police (who have for years been able to talk to their law enforcement neighbors) using LE channels with agreements.

Also, it's area dependent on what "national" radio channels are used where and no guarentee that a nearby agency is monitoring them - so could be a mute point anyways

Radio planning in the northeast is different than working APD (or RRPD) in California or Texas.

LE agencies in the northeast are fairly protective of their radio channels.

Spec · May 12, 2015

PJH said:
MOU's, especially with .gov agencies, takes time. I know first hand. There is still nothing wrong with railroad police (who have for years been able to talk to their law enforcement neighbors) using LE channels with agreements.

Also, it's area dependent on what "national" radio channels are used where and no guarentee that a nearby agency is monitoring them - so could be a mute point anyways

Radio planning in the northeast is different than working APD (or RRPD) in California or Texas.

LE agencies in the northeast are fairly protective of their radio channels.

Well put and on point. PJH

58006 · May 12, 2015

The Canadian Pacific Police have access to the Washington County MRD System. They have radio ID's assigned by the Division of State Police, 7G-71 and 7G-72.

DaveNF2G · May 14, 2015

Senator Schumer is pointing his finger in the wrong direction. The FCC cannot solve this problem. They are operating according to the powers given to them in law. If their powers are to change, then it is Congress (of which Mr. Schumer is a member) that must make it happen.

ecps92 · May 14, 2015

Amtrak is part of the Metro Boston area (BAPERN) Law Enforcement network
NEMLEC & BAPERN - Scan New England Wiki

So there is the ability and capability, if they put the effort into it

PJH said:
MOU's, especially with .gov agencies, takes time. I know first hand. There is still nothing wrong with railroad police (who have for years been able to talk to their law enforcement neighbors) using LE channels with agreements.

Also, it's area dependent on what "national" radio channels are used where and no guarentee that a nearby agency is monitoring them - so could be a mute point anyways

Radio planning in the northeast is different than working APD (or RRPD) in California or Texas.

LE agencies in the northeast are fairly protective of their radio channels.

gesucks · May 14, 2015

Let's clear this up for everyone who has not been listening.

This has NOTHING to do with talking on other people channels.

The problem is Amtrak and other RR public safety can not use mutual aid channels that are licensed by blanket authorization. These are channels like VCALL10, UTAC41 8CALL90 etc. Most of the NIFOG

And yes this is 100% an FCC issue. FCC passes the rules that govern this section. FCC can change this and congress has nothing to do with this.

ecps92 · May 14, 2015

Since most States (thru the SWIC) control the Interop via Statewide licenses and they are (Repeaters) generally disabled until someone calls and says "Mother May I use it", there should be nothing to prevent Amtrak from completing the standard MOU's with each State

It really does have something to do with Talking on other people channels/equipment, since the xyz entity installed/purchased and licensed the Repeater

It is ALL about playing together in the sand box and asking permission to use the shovel and pail

gesucks said:

Let's clear this up for everyone who has not been listening.

This has NOTHING to do with talking on other people channels.

The problem is Amtrak and other RR public safety can not use mutual aid channels that are licensed by blanket authorization. These are channels like VCALL10, UTAC41 8CALL90 etc. Most of the NIFOG

And yes this is 100% an FCC issue. FCC passes the rules that govern this section. FCC can change this and congress has nothing to do with this.

Click to expand...

gesucks · May 14, 2015

Please know what you are talking about ECPS92. SWICs have no authority to authorize agencies on National Interop channels (VCALL/VTAC, UCALL/UTAC, 7CALL/7TAC, 8CALL/8TAC, IR. LE) that are licensed by blanket authorization. Nor do SWIC's have a say if people can/can not use a repeater they have put up on a National Interop channel that is licensed by blanket authorization. Per FCC/NTIA rules, they can be accessed by any agency holding a Public Safety FCC license. Railroad Police do not have a Public Safety FCC license nor can they get one now. That is why they can not access those channels.

Other channels such as mutual aid channels (VFIREx, VLAWx, VMEDx, MED Channels) they can access with MOU's. Those most of the time are handle locally or in some area statewide.

This has nothing to do with "It is ALL about playing together in the sand box and asking permission to use the shovel and pail" since the way to get permission is for the FCC to change the law.

Kitn1mcc · May 14, 2015

Or just have APD say F it an just program there radios up as needed. Sure the FCC could levy a fine against the APD (good luck collecting it) or some local PD may get upset. I do think i have heard APD talking to Old Saybrook PD on there uhf channel also heard them talk to new haven pd

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