STARS Info

Heard a couple DCR units trying to troubleshoot a radio problem today.

During process of it the one unit had another switching to different channels.

They referred to Douthat Dispatch 2113 as Red 6 and also to a new TG of 2089 as Red 3.

Douthat Dispatch was referred to as being in Zone 2 also.

Obviously this is internal STARS radio nomenclature.

Ghstwolf62 said:

They referred to Douthat Dispatch 2113 as Red 6 and also to a new TG of 2089 as Red 3....Obviously this is internal STARS radio nomenclature.

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I might be wrong, but it could be related to how the STARS system lists "Red", and "Blue" channels in different user-groups, like in the VDOC, and VDEM groups.

Thanks for sharing,

DCR RED-3

Ghstwolf62 said:

Heard a couple DCR units trying to troubleshoot a radio problem today.

During process of it the one unit had another switching to different channels.

They referred to Douthat Dispatch 2113 as Red 6 and also to a new TG of 2089 as Red 3.

Douthat Dispatch was referred to as being in Zone 2 also.

Obviously this is internal STARS radio nomenclature.

Click to expand...

Is 2089 correct for RED-3 or should it be 2039

Well keep in mind I only had it show up for a second or two and I didn't have my glasses on but I thought it read 2089.

It came up on a wildcard hit which was what got my interest, that and the alert w/flashing lights. LOL

QDP2012 said:

I might be wrong, but it could be related to how the STARS system lists "Red", and "Blue" channels in different user-groups, like in the VDOC, and VDEM groups.

Thanks for sharing,

Click to expand...

I imagine your correct there. I've heard them refer to channels before such as DCR LE 6 and Douthat Dispatch but this was the first time I've heard the red referred to on DCR.

It would certainly explain it for the two channels. With that being said it would mean Douthat Dispatch was operating on Red 6 for park ops. And it would go in line with red 3 too.

I know they had to switch zones to Zone 2 though to get Red 6. So it looks like DCR has "Red" channels for them too.

DEM Ops 1 was active today and for the first time units were encrypted. (That I've heard)

Usually its helicopters but today it was units and they were out my way for something. Not sure what.
Dispatch was in clear.

Also anyone have any idea why 769 and 2112 are always patched but nothing comes across on 769?

I know they switched all units to 2112 but it still shows patched just nothing on it. Before it was because Salem was dispatching DCR on 769.

Shouldn't a patched set of channels result in simulcast traffic on the two groups?

Just wondering as I thought that odd.

Ghstwolf62 said:

DEM Ops 1 was active today and for the first time units were encrypted. (That I've heard)

Usually its helicopters but today it was units and they were out my way for something. Not sure what.
Dispatch was in clear.

Also anyone have any idea why 769 and 2112 are always patched but nothing comes across on 769?

I know they switched all units to 2112 but it still shows patched just nothing on it. Before it was because Salem was dispatching DCR on 769.

Shouldn't a patched set of channels result in simulcast traffic on the two groups?

Just wondering as I thought that odd.

Click to expand...

Their are a couple of DEM Units that run encrypted, not all of them do

I hear plenty of traffic on 769 (Salem-2) on the Ft Lewis site. Is it perhaps because no one is affiliated to the site/tower you are listening to?

John

LeSueurC said:

Their are a couple of DEM Units that run encrypted, not all of them do

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Thanks for the info. I hear that TG so rarely I have no idea of the "Norms" for it. The few times I've heard it in the past its been helos and they were in the clear. Heard only one mobile unit on one occasion and it was also clear.

That clears it up, thanks.

John said:

I hear plenty of traffic on 769 (Salem-2) on the Ft Lewis site. Is it perhaps because no one is affiliated to the site/tower you are listening to?

John

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No, its something to do with problems they are having. They've switched all traffic over to 2112 on the sites up here. No traffic is occurring on 769 even though it shows patched to 2112.

I am not sure how it works for them but somehow they are putting out the 769 traffic on 2112 off several towers.

Someone with more knowledge, which is probably most anyone, would have to chime in here to explain it more.

It works but its strange as you pointed out. Once outside this area its coming in over the regular talk group. I know when I get down to Roanoke its all on 769 as you said but I'm listening to different towers such as your 218.

Ghstwolf62 said:

Thanks for the info. I hear that TG so rarely I have no idea of the "Norms" for it. The few times I've heard it in the past its been helos and they were in the clear. Heard only one mobile unit on one occasion and it was also clear.

That clears it up, thanks.

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Now can you hear the DEM units in Tidewater from where you are? Because I've heard units around Fairfax and Wytheville.

Except for times when I've heard the helicopters saying where they were or where they were going I have no idea where anyone was or who they were beyond dispatch and helicopter.

I rarely do hear them since I'm out near West Virginia in Alleghany county. They could be from anywhere.
Their TG would have to be on one of the sites I could pick up and those range 221-224. Its rate.

Just picked up military comms on 4529, only second time I've heard DMA traffic.

I don't understand why a site would have a problem with one talkgroup and not others. As far as a site is concerned all talkgroups are the same hardware speaking. Any talkgroup could be on any RF channel so whether it is 769 or 2112 they use the same hardware. Which talkgroup is transmitted is a matter of what the controller sends to the actual repeaters. So unless there is a programming error I don't see how a particular site could have trouble with just a single talkgroup and not all talkgroups. I have never heard of any failure like that.

Also, I don't think they would reprogram all their field trooper radios to switch from 769 to 2112. They could do that over the air (OTAP) but I don't they would do that because it would affect the trooper if he drive into another area. I don't believe the VSP radios had DCR talkgroups in them.

Still if all the troopers in the area are still working on the old conventional channels patched to STARS there could be no trooper in that area/site affiliated so the repeaters would not transmit the 769 traffic. However 2112 might be transmitted if there is a DCR unit in the area or they have it programmed to transmit no matter what.

John

John said:

I don't understand why a site would have a problem with one talkgroup and not others. As far as a site is concerned all talkgroups are the same hardware speaking. Any talkgroup could be on any RF channel so whether it is 769 or 2112 they use the same hardware. Which talkgroup is transmitted is a matter of what the controller sends to the actual repeaters. So unless there is a programming error I don't see how a particular site could have trouble with just a single talkgroup and not all talkgroups. I have never heard of any failure like that.

Also, I don't think they would reprogram all their field trooper radios to switch from 769 to 2112. They could do that over the air (OTAP) but I don't they would do that because it would affect the trooper if he drive into another area. I don't believe the VSP radios had DCR talkgroups in them.

Still if all the troopers in the area are still working on the old conventional channels patched to STARS there could be no trooper in that area/site affiliated so the repeaters would not transmit the 769 traffic. However 2112 might be transmitted if there is a DCR unit in the area or they have it programmed to transmit no matter what.

John

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I don't understand anything about it either to tell the truth. All I know is they were having trouble on 769. It always sounded good to me but the units were saying they couldn't hear dispatch or reach dispatch a lot. They took all traffic off 769 and put it on 2112. They've done this before but usually for not this long a period.

A bit ago they switched back to 769 for the day but again units were saying they could not communicate with dispatch nor could dispatch hear them although on my radios I did fine for both.

They said they were switching them back and did so. They've been on 2112 ever since which has been a couple of months at least.

I do agree that it is unlikely they switched the radios. I think it is more likely and from the way they talked about it they are somehow routing 769 traffic to the 2112 talk group. Don't ask me how but from what I gathered from comms it was a behind the scenes switch and nothing done to or by the units themselves. So basically a trooper sets his channel to Salem 2 769 and it transmits not on 769 but 2112.

I can also confirm after spending the day in Roanoke today that 2112 was being used on Ft. Lewis for 769 as well as on 233 Potts Mountain.

As I've also said before it shows on the sites out here as 2112 for all traffic on Pro96com too. As an added note Salem simulcasts all traffic on their regular analog channels, 6/11 and 6/12. There is no traffic going out over 769 on the air at least it all shows 2112 only.

There is no way that units out here wouldn't be affiliated with at least one of the sites they'd absolutely have to be affiliated with to operate. I pick up 221-222-223-224 and sometimes 218, 225 and 231.

All the units west are always on 221 and/or 223 while central east Alleghany hit 222 oftentimes. I've also picked them up on their input as well as extender frequencies and once again they show P25 and 2112 where appropriate on them.

So it comes back to I have no clue how they're doing it but they are routing the traffic off one talkgroup onto another on the back end so it doesn't affect units from everything I can tell.

Some Motorola/radio/computer geek on here might chime in and be able to tell us what the heck I'm talking about but I'm afraid I can't. LOL

For anyone interested Salem 2 went back to 769 yesterday (Monday) and is still on it today. All traffic seems to be off 2112 again, for now at least.

Looks like Salem 2 is back on 2112 yet again today.

Also yesterday heard something new. Anyone know what a "Delta" unit is on VSP?

Heard "Delta" followed by three numbers go in service special detail in a specific city yesterday. "Delta ###"

Have never heard of any such unit in VSP before which doesn't mean much but....

If you heard this traffic on one of the VSP interoperability channels such as INOP LE-6 or COMLINC-6 they frequently have these patched to a local system. COMLINC-6 is currently patched to Roanoke City PD. Roanoke City uses Alpha, Bravo, Charlies and Delta to identify platoons for patrol officers such as Delta District 10 A.

Ghstwolf62 said:

DEM Ops 1 was active today and for the first time units were encrypted. (That I've heard)

Usually its helicopters but today it was units and they were out my way for something. Not sure what.
Dispatch was in clear.

Also anyone have any idea why 769 and 2112 are always patched but nothing comes across on 769?

I know they switched all units to 2112 but it still shows patched just nothing on it. Before it was because Salem was dispatching DCR on 769.

Shouldn't a patched set of channels result in simulcast traffic on the two groups?

Just wondering as I thought that odd.

Click to expand...

Ron,
In the P-25 standard there what as know as ANNOUNCEMENT GROUPS. When a unit transmits on an ANNOUNCEMENT talkgroup, any talkgroups that are associated with it will also broadcast this same traffic.

The in the APCO Project-16 world would have been known as a FLEET talkgroup ( = ANNOUNCEMENT) and SubFLEET talkgroups ( = Associated talkgroup).

In the APCO P-16 standard (Moto SmartZone/SecureNet, EFJ LTR & EDACS) you were normally limited to sixteen Subfleet groups per each Fleet group. In P-25, you have have hundreds of talkgroups under one Announcement Group. It gives the System Administrator a lot more flexibility to structure the fleetmap of the system.


Before I retired in 2012, when I was creating a system fleetmap and the user radio programming, I would always make the ANNOUNCEMENT TALKGROUP in the user radios a TRANSMIT ONLY talkgroup. Receive would be disabled. In this way, it would keep the less than astute users from having a conversation on an announcement talkgroup, thinking they were having a private conversation, when in reality hundred or possibly thousands of users were hearing their conversation! This was akin to a upper-level manager hitting replay-to-all without realizing the implications. )

John said:

If you heard this traffic on one of the VSP interoperability channels such as INOP LE-6 or COMLINC-6 they frequently have these patched to a local system. COMLINC-6 is currently patched to Roanoke City PD. Roanoke City uses Alpha, Bravo, Charlies and Delta to identify platoons for patrol officers such as Delta District 10 A.

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It was on the Salem 1 or maybe 2 channel and concerned city of Roanoke. It was Delta667 I believe, on duty for special detail city of Roanoke.

So you may have pegged it.

kb4cvn said:

Ron,
In the P-25 standard there what as know as ANNOUNCEMENT GROUPS. When a unit transmits on an ANNOUNCEMENT talkgroup, any talkgroups that are associated with it will also broadcast this same traffic.

The in the APCO Project-16 world would have been known as a FLEET talkgroup ( = ANNOUNCEMENT) and SubFLEET talkgroups ( = Associated talkgroup).

In the APCO P-16 standard (Moto SmartZone/SecureNet, EFJ LTR & EDACS) you were normally limited to sixteen Subfleet groups per each Fleet group. In P-25, you have have hundreds of talkgroups under one Announcement Group. It gives the System Administrator a lot more flexibility to structure the fleetmap of the system.


Before I retired in 2012, when I was creating a system fleetmap and the user radio programming, I would always make the ANNOUNCEMENT TALKGROUP in the user radios a TRANSMIT ONLY talkgroup. Receive would be disabled. In this way, it would keep the less than astute users from having a conversation on an announcement talkgroup, thinking they were having a private conversation, when in reality hundred or possibly thousands of users were hearing their conversation! This was akin to a upper-level manager hitting replay-to-all without realizing the implications. )

Click to expand...

Thanks