Moral Question Regarding Radio Scanning

Status
Not open for further replies.

pb_lonny

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
1,916
Location
Tasmania
I have been involved in the radio scanning hobby for about 17 years. I run a blog and post my loggings fairly often.
Recently a company has emailed me, asking me not to post the fact that I am able to listen to them, this is not the content of the communications but the fact that the communication takes place.

The only "law" around scanning I know of is that you can't listen to telephone calls, this is covered by the telecommunications (interception) act. Over the years I have also heard / read a couple of "common sense" rules which I agree with.
- Don't repeat what you hear to third persons (If you hear your boss gets caught drinking driving don't go and tell other people)
- Don't use what you hear for commercial gain (such as tow truck drivers turning up at accidents to get work)
- Don't use what you hear to assist with committing a crime. (Listening to the police to know where they are to not get caught committing a crime)

Now this company rents this frequency off a two way radio rental company, via some detective work I have worked out who the user is, this is what I am listing on my blog.

I am in two minds about this, I don't want to piss off this company but I don't think listing the company name is an issue. To me the "content" of the communications should not be shared but the fact that company X uses 71.675MHz is not a problem. The email is fairly informal at this stage. How would you approach this?
 

mciupa

Database Admin
Moderator
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
8,301
I have been involved in the radio scanning hobby for about 17 years. I run a blog and post my loggings fairly often.
Recently a company has emailed me, asking me not to post the fact that I am able to listen to them, this is not the content of the communications but the fact that the communication takes place.

The only "law" around scanning I know of is that you can't listen to telephone calls, this is covered by the telecommunications (interception) act. Over the years I have also heard / read a couple of "common sense" rules which I agree with.
- Don't repeat what you hear to third persons (If you hear your boss gets caught drinking driving don't go and tell other people)
- Don't use what you hear for commercial gain (such as tow truck drivers turning up at accidents to get work)
- Don't use what you hear to assist with committing a crime. (Listening to the police to know where they are to not get caught committing a crime)

Now this company rents this frequency off a two way radio rental company, via some detective work I have worked out who the user is, this is what I am listing on my blog.

I am in two minds about this, I don't want to piss off this company but I don't think listing the company name is an issue. To me the "content" of the communications should not be shared but the fact that company X uses 71.675MHz is not a problem. The email is fairly informal at this stage. How would you approach this?

Since it is a polite request at this time to cease and desist, I feel you should comply.

Also review the terms of services with your internet provider. Have you crossed over any lines with the IP service as they are peripherally involved by permitting your postings on their site?

I will use acronyms here: IOW CYA :wink:
 

dmg1969

Member
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
1,096
Location
Newport, PA
Without naming the company...what type of business is it? I'm in the U.S. and don't know the laws regarding scanning in Tasmania. If they are worried about people listening to the contents of their radio transmissions (even though you are not posting the contents), they should be on an encrypted system or one that cannot be listened to on a scanner. That's just common sense. That being said, I would respect their request.
 

n0nhp

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
773
Location
Grand Junction
A similar but different situation happened here many years ago, before RadioReference I was maintaining a web site with frequencies of area emergency comms. The communications director for a county contacted me and asked that the information for his county be removed from my site. Here is where the difference lies. Most of the information for my site was public information available from our Federal Communications Commission. All I added was the Sub Audible tone that they were using.
I pointed out that most of the information was public knowledge and that I didn't feel that the information was proprietary. He pointed out the tones were and made a veiled threat about the county attorney. I pointed out that he was broadcasting that tone over an un-encrypted channel and the hardware to decode the tone was built into several of the radios I used to monitor his communications.
I did not hear from him again.
In your situation, as others have stated, it depends on the laws and how they read, whether your publishing the information is legal and or if it harms his company having the knowledge public.

Good luck,

Bruce
 

balibago

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
220
Location
New Iberia
Scrambled comms.

Let's say you are in possession of a radio as an authorized user (reserve deputy} can you legally stream it? Also if you are able to hear some real juicy stuff don't post it online if it;s in the clear. We don't want another user to scramble or put money in the hands of the scrambler manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
172
Location
San Diego, CA
I would honor the request, for now. Then I would check with every person/agency/provider I could think of. If I 100% sure no rights, laws or regulations were even close to being violated, I'd post it.
 

zz0468

QRT
Banned
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
6,034
I would tell him I would continue to post my discoveries as it is in the public interest to do so.

I'd buy that in a discussion about local government communications, but this is a business he's talking about. It's none of the publics business.


I think the op is crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed.
 

zz0468

QRT
Banned
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
6,034
Let's say you are in possession of a radio as an authorized user (reserve deputy} can you legally stream it?

Quite possibly not. Authorized users are frequently subject to non- disclosure agreements. It might not be spelled out in a separate document, but terms of employment may state something about confidentiality.
 

buddrousa

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2003
Messages
11,224
Location
Retired 40 Year Firefighter NW Tenn
Yes, police scanners are legal to own and operate in the US.

Airwaves in the U.S. are public property and information sent over them does not presume privacy which was established in the 1934 Communications Act. Some radio bands are blocked on scanners such as cell phone and some military bands where privacy is presumed, but all other frequencies are considered public. For an understanding of radio bands in the US and how they work please read Key Police Scanner Concepts & Overview.

While listening to radio bands on police scanners in legal in the US, there are 2 types of restrictions. These restrictions vary greatly from state to state as these are state laws, not federal laws. The restrictions center around:

1 – Use of a police scanner while driving
2 – Use of a police scanner in the furtherance of a crime

As stated in the 1934 Communications Act the airways are owned by the FCC and you the end user are granted permission to use them.
 

ko6jw_2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,448
Location
Santa Ynez, CA
Let's get something clear. This is not a moral issue. It is an ethical issue. As an example, I have a friend who is a contact radio technician for the US Forest Service. He has given me information on new frequencies such a UHF links. He also gave me information on law enforcement nets in the forest. He requested that I not divulge or post the law enforcement frequencies. Ethically I feel bound to honor his request. There is no moral issue. However, this is not public information. By the way, I've never heard any traffic on these frequencies anyway and he told me that any traffic would be tactical low power (no repeaters).

Locally, we have an Indian casino. Its radio frequencies are in the FCC database, but not posted to RR. This may be deliberate or just an omission. My view is, if you want to know, you can find out. Should it be posted? Who cares? If you want to listen, you can. The casino might not be happy, but it's not unethical.
 

rapidcharger

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
2,382
Location
The land of broken calculators.
I have been involved in the radio scanning hobby for about 17 years. I run a blog and post my loggings fairly often.
Recently a company has emailed me, asking me not to post the fact that I am able to listen to them, this is not the content of the communications but the fact that the communication takes place.

The only "law" around scanning I know of is that you can't listen to telephone calls, this is covered by the telecommunications (interception) act. Over the years I have also heard / read a couple of "common sense" rules which I agree with.
- Don't repeat what you hear to third persons (If you hear your boss gets caught drinking driving don't go and tell other people)
- Don't use what you hear for commercial gain (such as tow truck drivers turning up at accidents to get work)
- Don't use what you hear to assist with committing a crime. (Listening to the police to know where they are to not get caught committing a crime)

Now this company rents this frequency off a two way radio rental company, via some detective work I have worked out who the user is, this is what I am listing on my blog.
I am in two minds about this, I don't want to piss off this company but I don't think listing the company name is an issue. To me the "content" of the communications should not be shared but the fact that company X uses 71.675MHz is not a problem. The email is fairly informal at this stage. How would you approach this?

If the company's frequency (station license) is publicly available in a database , as it is in the USA, I would just Point out to them that it is already out there. Over here the most likely result from not honoring their wish is they will go underground and then you won't hear them anymore. If that's not a concern of yours then you can tell them to pound sand. Or better yet ignore it and deny their IP address from your site if possible. Of course that's not being real neighborly.
 
Last edited:

ShyFlyer

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
640
Location
Colorado
Let's say you are in possession of a radio as an authorized user (reserve deputy} can you legally stream it?
I would not. The equipment is issued for official use only. Streaming wouldn't be an "official use."
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Stateside

But the OP is in Tasmania, and the subject is about the moralities, not the legalities, of disclosing information.

I'm gonna take a guess that if the OP comes around again, it turns out he's not actually in Tazmania.
 

pb_lonny

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
1,916
Location
Tasmania
Thanks for all the replies, I think I need to clear this up. The example below is just to show what I mean.

I am in Australia, on the ACMA database (Like the US FCC) it is listed as for example:
71.675MHz - Random Two Way Rental Company

Random Two Way Rental Company owns a heap of different frequencies, these are leased to various users. In the case of 71.675MHz I have worked out that is it used by "John Smith Transport".

On my blog I share my loggings, I post it as:
71.675MHz - Random Two Way Rental Company (Used by John Smith Transport)

It is "John Smith Transport" who have asked me to not list them, at this point I have not replied to them about this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top