Colorado State Patrol - which repeater do they user in Denver Metro area

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Bofh

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Colorado State Patrol - which repeater do they use in Denver Metro area

I can't figure out which DTRS site they use for covering the Denver Metro area. I've programmed in the Squaw (006) and Thorodin (005), but still not hearing anything on TG's 2305 and 2381. Suggestions ?
 
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dw2872

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Those two CSP talk groups are on Lookout (mostly), Squaw, and Thorodin. Also on Riley Peak but less often.
 

Spitfire8520

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On any of the Uniden scanners, you want to consider programming all the CSP Denver Dispatch talkgroups (1A, 1C, 1D, 1E, 3A, 3B, & 3C) all at once. CSP Denver Dispatch often patches talkgroups together and the Uniden scanners, including the newest models, does not support patch following for whatever reason. If you do not have the target talkgroup programmed, then you may miss some of the traffic.

From several days of of the patch logs:
TG 2305 has been patched to TG 2389 (frequently), 2451, and 2477.
TG 2381 has been patched to TG 2301, 2305, 2385 (frequently), and 2401.
 

jimmnn

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I can't figure out which DTRS site they use for covering the Denver Metro area. I've programmed in the Squaw (006) and Thorodin (005), but still not hearing anything on TG's 2305 and 2381. Suggestions ?

Lookout for those TG's mainly.

Jim<
 

jimmnn

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996XT and Freescan. I'll triple check my programming. Thanks for the heads up!

Don't forget CSP loves to patch there TG together everyday also due to limited dispatchers.

Jim<
 

natedawg1604

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On any of the Uniden scanners, you want to consider programming all the CSP Denver Dispatch talkgroups (1A, 1C, 1D, 1E, 3A, 3B, & 3C) all at once. ....

I would reiterate this! Also, don't forget about the associated Tac channels, 1 for the East and West TG's for each troop. Program them all. As was mentioned above, you MUST program all TG's for Troops 1-A/C/D/E and 3-A/B/C (including Tac channels), and monitor them ALL. As you will discover from many prior forum posts, CSP "Denver Dispatch" (technically in Lakewood) randomly patches various talkgroups for 1-A/C/D/E and 3-A/B/C in random combinations, 99.99% of the time.

After years of logging patch data, AFAIK nobody has discovered any discernible "pattern" to the patching assignments, and that's because CSP does NOT assign dedicated dispatchers to any troop within the "Denver Dispatch" coverage region. In some sense, you could view Troops 1-A/C/D/E and 3-A/B/C as a SINGLE 'district' for radio dispatch purposes. Troopers within a given troop do have assigned TG's, and dispatchers can tell from their screens which troop a particular unit is in at any given time.

The only time one can reliably monitor a single troop in isolation, is during the relatively rare instance of lengthy high-speed chases or other big incidents, when they will sometimes break a patch and temporarily assign a dedicated dispatcher to a single Troop. (Even then, the East and West TG's within that troop would still be patched). However, this is pretty rare.

Even if you had an authorized CSP Motorola Radio, it would still be impossible to monitor a single troop in isolation, with any consistency whatsoever. AFAIK, you could only do this if you worked in the dispatch center and had direct access to dispatch consoles (such that you could control patching assignments).
 

PJH

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I'm not sure what is meant by the scanners not seeing patches....

From my Motorola days, most dispatcher level patching and even system level patching is done with two button presses and its seamless. Remember, DTRS is just like a Smartzone system - no one on a specific talkgroup affiliated to that tower, you are not going to hear them - regardless of how many talkgroups are linked together.

The only other way around that, would be doing a dynamic regroup to a specific set of radio ID's, and I highly doubt they are doing that since its a small pain in the butt to do it, and its time consuming.

So if 3A and 3B are patched together, it wouldn't matter as its seamless to the user and still would be heard normally if a radio is affiliated to your local tower. Scan the towers in addition to the talkgroups.
 

Spitfire8520

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I'm not sure what is meant by the scanners not seeing patches....

From my Motorola days, most dispatcher level patching and even system level patching is done with two button presses and its seamless. Remember, DTRS is just like a Smartzone system - no one on a specific talkgroup affiliated to that tower, you are not going to hear them - regardless of how many talkgroups are linked together.

Except that we know, as users who listen and log the system, that the sites being mentioned above commonly have affiliations for these talkgroups. As one of your fellow Database Administrators explains Motorola patching:

When patching two talk groups on the same Motorola system, the first talk group selected by the dispatcher on a Centracom or MCC7500 console will be the patch 'supergroup'. Every talk group selected thereafter will be a member within the supergroup. Basically, this means that the system will broadcast messages on the control channel saying "hey radios, anytime that I say that the supergroup is being used, treat that the same as if you were receiving a call on any of the following talk groups too..." and lists those talk groups. It also tells the radios that if they place a talk group call on a supergroup member to expect the system to tell the radio that the channel grant is the supergroup instead.

When patching is done, the voice grants for those talkgroups show up on the supergroup (for Motorola) or a System Assigned ID (a block of TGIDs for patching on Harris) rather than the source talkgroup. So if 3A is patched to 3B, all 3A voice grants show up as 3B voice grants. I assume this is to preserve voice frequencies as it would be redundant to simulcast the voice traffic on two voice frequencies for different talkgroups.

Now as for the Uniden scanners not following patches on P25, they appear to not recognize these patch messages and have not since Uniden first got into P25 scanners. The Uniden scanner will only look for the 3A voice grants and will ultimately see none since the subscriber units are acting as if they are on 3B. This is the reason why Uniden users need to program all potential talkgroups that are patched together or else they will definitely miss a transmission should the talkgroup be patched to something else. It's fairly confusing as to why they have opted to not address this issue as it has been known for several years now and has had a few users asking in their forums.

As for the GRE/Whistler units, they follow these messages fine and do not need this workaround.
 
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PJH

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We played with the Homepatrol when it first came out on our system to see what it would do at the NOC (we use private call extensively so we were curious) and did all sorts of patching between a couple of systems, talkgroups and TRS>Conv. I don't recall seeing any of that behavior at the time. We were still heavy on the GE and had some 5500's integrated at that time.

We use to do hard and dispatcher setup patches, didn't see any difference on our end playing with it. With newer firmware/hardware from uniden, I don't know if that changed anything.

On the subscriber side, if TG A was patched to B or C, any radio on any of those talkgroups would still be affiated to A B or C and the audio and talkgroups were active as such.

But then again, we were so multi-redundant anything and everything was (and frequently) surprising on how it would react.
 

mikewazowski

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It took Uniden years before they developed a scanner that would follow 3600baud patches correctly.

Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten what they learned when they rolled out scanners capable of following P25 systems. I can confirm that the newer Uniden scanners will miss patched traffic on P25 systems depending on which talkgroups you're scanning.
 
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