Niagara County Public Safety System

Saint · Jun 24, 2015

Can someone tell me what kind of signal they are getting on this system, I am listening to the control frequency now on 424.3625 MHz and the signal is terribly weak I can just barely hear the signal, I don't know were the towers are located but I thought I would have no problem picking up the control channel frequencies, also there is someone still talking on this control channel 242.3625 MHz from time to time. Any information on why the weak signal.
I'm in Fort Erie Ontario.
Steve

mciupa · Jun 24, 2015

Part of the answer may be in the description on the DB page.

this system will use Linear Simulcast Modulation (LSM) technology to provide the required RF coverage over 2,953 km2 (1,140 sq. mi), and keep the signal mostly within the county boundaries. This is a six-site UHF simulcast system with tower sites at the following locations:
•Lewiston, NY
•Niagara Falls, NY
•North Tonawanda, NY
•Gasport, NY
•Lockport, NY
•Newfane, NY

Those locations are mostly near Lake Ontario.

Saint · Jun 24, 2015

Information

mciupa said:
Part of the answer may be in the description on the DB page.

this system will use Linear Simulcast Modulation (LSM) technology to provide the required RF coverage over 2,953 km2 (1,140 sq. mi), and keep the signal mostly within the county boundaries. This is a six-site UHF simulcast system with tower sites at the following locations:
•Lewiston, NY
•Niagara Falls, NY
•North Tonawanda, NY
•Gasport, NY
•Lockport, NY
•Newfane, NY

Those locations are mostly near Lake Ontario.

Thanks for the information, I was hopping the weak signal was because they just brought the system on line and TEC'S needed to tweak it a little. Unitrunker decodes the control channel even though it's weak, but my scanner just can't lock onto the control channel.
Steve

mciupa · Jun 24, 2015

Saint said:
Thanks for the information, I was hopping the weak signal was because they just brought the system on line and TEC'S needed to tweak it a little. Unitrunker decodes the control channel even though it's weak, but my scanner just can't lock onto the control channel.
Steve

No problem, Steve.

Look at my Pro96.com info from last Sunday. I captured this in Toronto in a subway station parking lot in the west end of the city on my BCD 396XT with RadioShack 800 MHz antenna.

Code:

Tower Description     : 
Control Capabilities  : Data,Voice,Registration
Flavor                : [B]Phase 1[/B]
Call Sign(s)          : 
Timestamp             : Sun Jun 21 11:54:41 2015

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth,[B][COLOR="red"]Slots[/COLOR][/B]
00,851.00625,0.00625,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1
01,762.00625,0.00625,30.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1
02,851.01250,0.01250,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,[B][COLOR="Red"]2[/COLOR][/B]
03,400.00000,0.00625,5.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1
04,935.01250,0.01250,-39.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1

-Frequencies
#Format: Channel,Usage,Frequency(/Slot),Input Channel,Input Frequency(/Slot),Input Explicit(1/0),Hit Count
"03-3830","v",423.93750,"03-3830",428.93750,0,3
"03-3834","v",423.96250,"03-3834",428.96250,0,2
"03-3850","v",424.06250,"03-3850",429.06250,0,1
"03-3862","v",424.13750,"03-3862",424.13750,1,1
"03-3866","a",424.16250,"03-3866",424.16250,1,0
"03-3882","a",424.26250,"03-3882",424.26250,1,0
"03-3890","a",424.31250,"03-3890",424.31250,1,0
"03-3898","c",424.36250,"03-3898",424.36250,1,0

... and I'm at least 70 miles north of the closest tower.

Saint · Jun 24, 2015

Wow

mciupa said:

No problem, Steve.

Look at my Pro96.com info from last Sunday. I captured this in Toronto in a subway station parking lot in the west end of the city on my BCD 396XT with RadioShack 800 MHz antenna.

Code:

Tower Description     : 
Control Capabilities  : Data,Voice,Registration
Flavor                : [B]Phase 1[/B]
Call Sign(s)          : 
Timestamp             : Sun Jun 21 11:54:41 2015

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth,[B][COLOR=red]Slots[/COLOR][/B]
00,851.00625,0.00625,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1
01,762.00625,0.00625,30.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1
02,851.01250,0.01250,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,[B][COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR][/B]
03,400.00000,0.00625,5.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1
04,935.01250,0.01250,-39.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1

-Frequencies
#Format: Channel,Usage,Frequency(/Slot),Input Channel,Input Frequency(/Slot),Input Explicit(1/0),Hit Count
"03-3830","v",423.93750,"03-3830",428.93750,0,3
"03-3834","v",423.96250,"03-3834",428.96250,0,2
"03-3850","v",424.06250,"03-3850",429.06250,0,1
"03-3862","v",424.13750,"03-3862",424.13750,1,1
"03-3866","a",424.16250,"03-3866",424.16250,1,0
"03-3882","a",424.26250,"03-3882",424.26250,1,0
"03-3890","a",424.31250,"03-3890",424.31250,1,0
"03-3898","c",424.36250,"03-3898",424.36250,1,0

... and I'm at least 70 miles north of the closest tower.

Amazing what you can pick up with a good antenna and the right weather conditions, I am on the 4 floor of a 6 story building and have a discone antenna just sitting out on my balcony facing north and really thought I would have no problem picking up this system but I was wrong.
Steve

Ncfirewire · Jun 24, 2015

Saint said:
Can someone tell me what kind of signal they are getting on this system, I am listening to the control frequency now on 424.3625 MHz and the signal is terribly weak I can just barely hear the signal, I don't know were the towers are located but I thought I would have no problem picking up the control channel frequencies, also there is someone still talking on this control channel 242.3625 MHz from time to time. Any information on why the weak signal.
I'm in Fort Erie Ontario.
Steve

From your location are you able to pick them up on the conventional system?

bigcam406 · Jun 24, 2015

he should be able to pick it up conventionally due to his location.im picking up the new system from across the lake with pretty good signal strength(60-80%) on my GRE 500/600's using Watson 801 and 889 antennas.

Saint · Jun 24, 2015

system

bigcam406 said:
he should be able to pick it up conventionally due to his location.im picking up the new system from across the lake with pretty good signal strength(60-80%) on my GRE 500/600's using Watson 801 and 889 antennas.

I just wanted to pick up the trunked system I have no problem picking up frequencies from Buffalo, Niagara Falls NY, Lockport and the surrounding area. I just did not understand why I was not able to receive a good strong signal on the control channel.
Steve

Thunderknight · Jun 24, 2015

Saint said:
I just wanted to pick up the trunked system I have no problem picking up frequencies from Buffalo, Niagara Falls NY, Lockport and the surrounding area. I just did not understand why I was not able to receive a good strong signal on the control channel.
Steve

The simulcast design might have you in a high TDI area.
The tower locations and antennas patterns might be such that the Toronto area has less TDI.

TDI is time delay interference and happens in simulcast configurations. Systems are designed to minimize it in the designed coverage area, but outside it is all bets off.

Saint · Jun 24, 2015

information

Thunderknight said:
The simulcast design might have you in a high TDI area.
The tower locations and antennas patterns might be such that the Toronto area has less TDI.

TDI is time delay interference and happens in simulcast configurations. Systems are designed to minimize it in the designed coverage area, but outside it is all bets off.

:wink: Yea, I was not aware that trunked systems could be setup that way it makes sense that I am having a problem with the weak control frequency, thanks for the explanation.
Steve

INDY72 · Jun 25, 2015

Smaller footprint is the idea for more local coverage systems. When you are only covering say an single municipal area, or county, usually they try to keep the rf footprint as close to boundary of that area as possible to prevent interference etc. Unless of course they routinely need to go out of the local area, and then they will try to set up coverage for parts of the surrounding areas. If the surrounding areas say, decide to jump in on the system, they can add sites etc for them and make it more of an wide area regional system. Plus with P25, the capture area is much smaller than analog. There is not much of an "grey" area with digital, you either have it, or you don't. Not to mention that most propagation in this continent is more in an North/Northeasterly direction due to weather, and other climatological/atmospheric factors. Add in to that the bigger an body of water near to transmitters, the better chances of expanded prop over that body of water. And that is an pretty large body of water up there.

mjmurphy61 · Jun 25, 2015

I'm located about a mile west of KBUF and I can't hear any of the control channels. Even with an outdoor antenna on the roof. I'm disappointed.

Ncfirewire · Jun 26, 2015

mjmurphy61 said:
I'm located about a mile west of KBUF and I can't hear any of the control channels. Even with an outdoor antenna on the roof. I'm disappointed.

That is surprising to hear because i was at ECMC today and i was still getting clear reception with a portable

mjmurphy61 · Jun 27, 2015

Working for me now. I deleted it and reinstalled. Must have screwed something up the first time. Not much activity yet though.

Ncfirewire · Jun 27, 2015

mjmurphy61 said:
Working for me now. I deleted it and reinstalled. Must have screwed something up the first time. Not much activity yet though.

They are still testing Tues 9 am everything is scheduled to start

joespca · Jun 27, 2015

Is the whole county going digital or will they still be on analog?

joespca · Jun 27, 2015

Never mind full digital will be on 6\30\2015

Thunderknight · Jun 27, 2015

Niagara County Consolidates Radio System | Firehouse

Ncfirewire · Jun 27, 2015

joespca said:
Is the whole county going digital or will they still be on analog?

County fire dispatch will be on both until they change to digital pagers and who knows how long that could take

kc2nru · Jun 28, 2015

I can hear them doing a Monitor Test. Usually they do that on Thursdays. I wonder what is up

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