• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

CDM 1250 series...how is this possible??

Status
Not open for further replies.

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
Guys I have six or so CDM1250 in both low band 42-50 and UHF in both high and low spits. Although I think I'm having this issue on both the UHF and low band models I'm not certain about that. The issue definitely exists on the low band models.

The low band CDMs are programmed with tone squelch on all channels yet at least five times a day or more I hear noise somehow getting through the tone squelch as if the radio is programmed as carrier squelch. The strangest part of the issue is that while the noise is present if I press the monitor button....the noise stops!? This is consistent on the base and mobile units. I'm not sure if it's a "birdie" like anomaly of the radio design itself but it's driving me nuts. The Maxtrax, Radius and Maratrac radios don't have this problem and remain quite.
It's almost like the monitor feature is working in reverse.

This shouldn't be possible to hear anything through the tone squelch so I'm a bit baffled as to the cause.
I've checked the programming and can't seem to locate anything so far that might cause this issue.
Could it be an issue with PL vs frequency? I haven't tried a different PL tone to see if it still happens but I will soon.
Is there anybody that can shed some light on this issue?
Thanks
Chris
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
You mean the tone? 118.8
I just remembered that I am using the same tone on another frequency channel and when I transmit on the other channel using the same tone...despite the fact the two channels are 250Khz somehow the radio opens up it's squelch and I hear noise. This shouldn't happen. I've never see this happen on any other radio before. I was thinking that the CDM has so many programmable perimeters...maybe I messed something and programmed the radio incorrectly?
 
Last edited:

rkm1215

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
482
Location
Knoxville
Yes. That is what I meant. I doubt this is your case, but it may be intermod or a spurious emission nearby. There was an issue around here recently where some failing electronic device was putting off a tone near 118.8 that was causing an issue and was also climbing up in frequency so was only on the 118.8 tone for a little bit, but wreaked havoc on some repeaters until the source could be ID'd. Some radios are more/less sensitive than others. Just a thought and like I said probably not your issue.
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,173
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
250KHz is a quarter meg away but if your antennas are close and the power is high, it's overloaded the front end of the other radio, being the PL tones are the same, the radio "hears" the tone and thus, the squelch opens.

what you can do is set the squelch to "tight" on that mode and see if that stops the "leak".
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
Thanks guys. I'll trying changing the tone and see what happens. I would have done it awhile ago but there are lots of radio that are programmed with this tone and it will mean gathering all the gear and infrastructure and reprogramming everything. I'll test it first.

MT2000,
Thanks. I figured that's what was happening. The antenna for the base is on the roof and when I use a 6watt MT1000 LB portable on the 250Khz away channel it bleeds over. I'll look into the squelch setting but maybe I'll change the tone and see what happens.
Thanks for your quick replies guys. I really appreciate it.
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
Mancow,
Either scanner or monitoring the channel with the radio sitting on that specific channel. It happens either way. As I was typing this reply it happend again on the base. A rendom noise blast then quite. The "s" meter on the radio never shows any signal present it just blast out this noise despite the fact the radio is in tone squelch mode. I'm going to try a different PL but with all the low band radios I've owned...in over 20 years, I've never seen this condition before.

The other important thing that needs some sort of explanation is, why when this noise is coming over the radio...pushing the monitor button shuts it off? That doesn't make any sense. If anything the noise should remain. It's almost like the monitor function is working in reverse. Yet the monitor speaker icon shows up on the screen. Weird. I mean if the noise is an actually RF signal than the noise should remain there when I press the monitor button...but it doesn't. I'm hoping that this issue is due to an oversight in my programming but so far that's not the case.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Enviroment

Not sure if this info would help you.
I'm not familiar with your work environment, but where I work, getting near some of the control electronics, such as motor drive packages and plc's, will open up the squelch on radios set up with a pl or dpl on receive.
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
Wyandotte, yes that does happen. As a matter of face we have a low band node in a high rise building within the elevator control room and it's a nightmare. The UHF linking hardware is fine but 30-50Mhz receiver is deaf. It will hear a mobile (60 watt with a matched antenna) only from about 9 miles out...but I can receive it from over 35 miles away without any issues. On week signals, when I'm at the site monitoring I can hear the pops and crackles as the elevators move and the switches (relays/mag switches) engage. But I'm hearing this noise at home in a very rural environment. No motors or controls...no hight voltage lines..very quite. I hear it around down when I'm driving and have herd in in the city as well. This noise/signal never shows a reading on the radios "s" meter. I'm going to change the PL and see if it helps. I still don't have an explanation to why when I press the Monitor button the noise stops. Bazaar.
 

cmdrwill

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
3,984
Location
So Cali
If the squelch setting is not changed from factory setting, the PL 'tone' can force open the squelch even without a valid carrier. Bottom line, Motorola PL forces the receiver to ignore the squelch setting.

Look for a setting called AND/OR, this makes the squelch circuit have both a valid PL tone detect AND a carrier that is above the squelch threshold to 'open the speaker', and losing either the PL tone detect OR the carrier mutes the receiver.
 

jim202

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,729
Location
New Orleans region
No one has asked you what type of mic your using on these radios. Is it a hand mike or a desk mic? The reason I ask is that in order for the tone squelch to work normally, it has to be in the tone squelch mode. When using a hand mic, the normal mics need to have the mic hangup clip grounded to go into the tone squelch mode. When you place the hand mic in the grounded clip, it puts the radio into tone squelch mode.

On a desk mic, there is a monitor switch / press tab that will put the receiver into the monitor mode. If by some chance the hand mic clip is not grounded or the desk mic is in the monitor mode, you will have a carrier squelched receiver.

There is also a chance that the radio is programmed for carrier squelch or told to ignore the hangup bracket.

You really need to do some homework before your going to solve this issue.
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
If the squelch setting is not changed from factory setting, the PL 'tone' can force open the squelch even without a valid carrier. Bottom line, Motorola PL forces the receiver to ignore the squelch setting.

Look for a setting called AND/OR, this makes the squelch circuit have both a valid PL tone detect AND a carrier that is above the squelch threshold to 'open the speaker', and losing either the PL tone detect OR the carrier mutes the receiver.

Thanks man....this sounds like a very reasonable setting that may be causing this issue. I'll check that out in a few minutes.
hansheesbeen, yup it is programmed for PL mode for sure.

jim202, Well the base is using a desk mic and the mobile is using a mobile DTMF mic. Both radios are told to ignore the HUB because forced monitoring isn't something we need to do. Besides if the mic is off the hook and the HUB was active it would be in monitor mode not when the mic was off the hook...this happens if the mic is on hook or not (well in the mobile installation). Interesting approach though. One thing I now remember is that the radio was told to ignore the hook for monitoring however it sees the hook for scan. So if the radio is in scan mode and I take the mic off the hook (mobile radio not base) the scan stops. Interesting guys. I'm going to look at this stuff now.
Thanks for all your efforts.
C
 

SteveC0625

Order of the Golden Dino since 1972
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
2,795
Location
Northville, NY (Fulton County)
No one has asked you what type of mic your using on these radios. Is it a hand mike or a desk mic? The reason I ask is that in order for the tone squelch to work normally, it has to be in the tone squelch mode. When using a hand mic, the normal mics need to have the mic hangup clip grounded to go into the tone squelch mode. When you place the hand mic in the grounded clip, it puts the radio into tone squelch mode.

On a desk mic, there is a monitor switch / press tab that will put the receiver into the monitor mode. If by some chance the hand mic clip is not grounded or the desk mic is in the monitor mode, you will have a carrier squelched receiver.

There is also a chance that the radio is programmed for carrier squelch or told to ignore the hangup bracket.

You really need to do some homework before your going to solve this issue.
In the standard hand mics for the CDM's (AARMN4025 and AARMN4026,) the HUB is grounded in the mic whenever the mic is placed in a metal hangup clip. The hangup clip bridges the two parts of the mic's hangup nubbin, completing the circuit. Other hand mics commonly used on the CDM's such as the HMN1035 and HMN1056 also have the same grounding mechanism. There is no need to ground the mic clip when using these hand mics.

In the CPS the AND/OR squelch logic is important, and Configuration --> Basic Tab --> Hook (HUB) Defeats PL all need to be set properly as well.
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
In the standard hand mics for the CDM's (AARMN4025 and AARMN4026,) the HUB is grounded in the mic whenever the mic is placed in a metal hangup clip. The hangup clip bridges the two parts of the mic's hangup nubbin, completing the circuit. Other hand mics commonly used on the CDM's such as the HMN1035 and HMN1056 also have the same grounding mechanism. There is no need to ground the mic clip when using these hand mics.

In the CPS the AND/OR squelch logic is important, and Configuration --> Basic Tab --> Hook (HUB) Defeats PL all need to be set properly as well.

Thanks Steve,
Well in my installation I'm not using either of those mics. I have an older classic (Maratrac or even Mitrek I think) mic that does in fact need a grounded clip which I have done. It appears to work correctly but I'm very curious to see if the seeing of AND/OR is set correctly. It wouldn't surprise me if it's set incorrectly.
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
If the squelch setting is not changed from factory setting, the PL 'tone' can force open the squelch even without a valid carrier. Bottom line, Motorola PL forces the receiver to ignore the squelch setting.

Look for a setting called AND/OR, this makes the squelch circuit have both a valid PL tone detect AND a carrier that is above the squelch threshold to 'open the speaker', and losing either the PL tone detect OR the carrier mutes the receiver.

I'm a bit disappointed. The setting is currently on STD unmuting/STD muting. According to the definition it's what I want. To unmute with proper PL detection and mute with the lost of that PL.

The HUB option is not ticked because I don't need forced monitoring when the mic is removed off the hook.
Should I try the "AND" option? It looks like the standard mute/unmute should work correctly though.

This option is in "OPTION" tab of each personality...is this the correct place?
C
 

eportel6607

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
112
Location
South County, Rhode Island
After all this I had put the radio on the bench to check the settings. While the radio was powered on the ribbon cable (not the RJ45 remote cable) disconnected from the control head to the radio (remote head installation) and now the radio won't power up...or it powers up with no back light and the CPS software can't read from it. What a piece of junk. I'm not a fan of the CDM....Time to put the Maxtrac back in the vehicle.
 

Avery93

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
560
Location
AL
I'm a bit disappointed. The setting is currently on STD unmuting/STD muting. According to the definition it's what I want. To unmute with proper PL detection and mute with the lost of that PL.

The HUB option is not ticked because I don't need forced monitoring when the mic is removed off the hook.
Should I try the "AND" option? It looks like the standard mute/unmute should work correctly though.

This option is in "OPTION" tab of each personality...is this the correct place?
C

You will want to change the Unmute / Mute Rule to "And Unmuting, Or Muting". This will require both successful PL decode and valid carrier before unmuting, while it will mute upon loss of either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top