GMRS for a small group

I have a few TK880 radios as well as a Baofeng BF-888S, Baofeng UV5R. asnd a TK380, would these radios be good for GMRS frequencies? I am looking for a easy way to get into using radios for a small 3 person security company for patrol and special event security. I will be getting a GMRS Liscense to comply with all regulations. Would I be able to build a repeater out of one of the TK880's? and how easy would it be?

RPSFresno said:

I have a few TK880 radios as well as a Baofeng BF-888S, Baofeng UV5R. asnd a TK380, would these radios be good for GMRS frequencies? I am looking for a easy way to get into using radios for a small 3 person security company for patrol and special event security. I will be getting a GMRS Liscense to comply with all regulations. Would I be able to build a repeater out of one of the TK880's? and how easy would it be?

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In the gmrs, the radios have to be certified for gmrs, part 95. I don't believe any of those radios you mentioned are but I could be mistaken about that.

Also, each unrelated user will have to get their own license. The fcc no longer issues gmrs licenses to corporate entities.

In addition, gmrs must be shared with other users and you may have people dropping in to have a chit chat while you're working.

For those reasons, you should get a business band license and coordinated business pool frequencies.

How did this thread go 12 hours without a response?!

Ok I gotcha..So for getting a business band license would be pretty much getting a frequency assigned for me that I can use for basic talk as well as using it on a repeater if I chose to?

Well if you're wanting a repeater then you'll need a frequency pair. I'd contact a local radio shop to assist. They may already have a radio system in place that you can rent space on and will probably have better coverage than one single repeater. Or if they don't they can get you set up with the frequency coordinating, licensing, and equipment.

In most instances you would apply to a frequency coordinator for a business license for a frequency ( or frequencies if you want a repeater and talk around). They research the available frequencies and based on your area of operation, antenna heights, power, number of radios, bases, mobiles and several other criteria assign a frequency(s). Those are submitted to the FCC and the FCC assigns a license (call sign). You then have one year to construct your system. There are radio shops (and companies) that will do all of the license preparation and FCC filings for you.
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RPSFresno said:

Ok I gotcha..So for getting a business band license would be pretty much getting a frequency assigned for me that I can use for basic talk as well as using it on a repeater if I chose to?

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For business use, you would need a part 90 license for the business and industrial pool. There is also a coordination process that you may need to go through in addition before you can get a license.. That costs money and is provided by a private non-governmental company. In the business band, you must either buy your own repeater or lease time on someone else's and there are companies that offer that service. If you go the latter route, you don't usually need to get your own license or coordination. There is no free sharing of repeaters like there are in gmrs or the ham band. But nobody would share their repeater with a business anyway. Repeaters may or may not be necessary depending on your needs.

For personal use, you as an individual and all the individuals can be eligible for gmrs but each will need your own license unless you're in the immediate family.

I would contact several two way radio dealers in your area and let them know what your needs are and your budget and get some proposals for your business use.

For what it's worth, none of the security companies in my area use two-way radios. They all just have cell phones. If you really need radios, renting them from a radio shop is going to be much cheaper than trying to build your own system. Assuming you already have the radios, count on spending $4-5k on a repeater and $400+ per month on site rental if you want it on a high mountain with good coverage. If you're not super experienced at this, you'll need folks to setup and install the repeater (they're not plug and play), plus there's the hiring of professional tower climbers to install the antenna(s). And as others have mentioned, there's frequency coordination, which is in the hundreds of dollars.

Compared to spending $20/mo per radio for unlimited airtime through a commercial provider, it's a no-brainer to rent.

Ok, so even if I wanted to get a business band could I still use it for a small area? Like maybe say 10 or 20 square miles? I'm dreading it but I guess i'm running out of options to get a no headache solution.

The headache free solution is to pay for radio service and rent airtime. Frequency coordination costs money, and you need to know what to ask for. And that's assuming there are frequencies available in your area.

Ok, sounds good then. I appreciate all the help everyone

RPSFresno said:

Ok, so even if I wanted to get a business band could I still use it for a small area? Like maybe say 10 or 20 square miles? I'm dreading it but I guess i'm running out of options to get a no headache solution.

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The "headache solution" would be to go it on your own. It's generally the most expensive route and one with the least success. You would be responsible for maintaining the radios, licenses, site, keeping things legal, making sure that coverage is not only legal, but sufficient for your needs (read setting up multiple sites so those pesky handhelds will have coverage), etc., etc., etc.

The "no headache solution" would be to contract with a company whose business is to provide radio services to companies. They will handle all of the hard and expensive stuff as well as keep up with any rule changes that may require changes to the system, licenses, site rentals, equipment maintenance, new sites to fix holes in coverage, etc. You pay the monthly rental on radios (or purchase the ones that they say you need and eliminate most of all of this fee - maintenance may still be monthly) and the monthly fee for air time, and do what you do best, your security business.

The area(s) you need coverage for should be spelled out in your contract with that service company (this area for 95% mobile coverage and these areas for 90% handheld coverage for example with roaming in these nearby cities on a part-time basis). Your contract should be very specific on coverage where you really need it (hopefully including a clause to add site(s) as necessary to provide this coverage) and include coverage (at a lower coverage percentage) where you may not need it all the time, but would like coverage when needed.

RPSFresno said:

Ok, so even if I wanted to get a business band could I still use it for a small area? Like maybe say 10 or 20 square miles? I'm dreading it but I guess i'm running out of options to get a no headache solution.

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For such a small area, you could go it alone and save some money but that will depend on some things. First of all, that's only about 3.33x3.33 miles to 4x5 miles. Paying for citywide coverage would be easier but it may not be necessary.

The simplest type of setup is a base to mobile setup.
In this scenario, you have a base radio and the operator of that radio be a human repeater. Dispatching mobile units and rlelaying traffic between units. If the mobile units are close enough together, they can talk directly to one another, perhaps on a separate channel.

For example, let's say you have apartment complex on one end and an office building on the other end and the base station "dispatch", we'll call it , in the middle. The units at the apt complex can talk direct among themselves and the units at the office bldg can talk among themselves. If they need to call dispatch or dispatch needs to call them, they can, just by changing the channel.

So, repeaters may not be necessary, it depends on your needs and whether you have acceptable coverage without them at each property you have. A base station can cost well under a thousand dollars. Coordination typically costs less when you are just operating simplex, without a repeater.

I have seen it done this way with a security firm before, where they have some condo buildings. Their main office is in the middle and they had a repeater. If the units at any of the buildings need to call the main office, they switch channels and use that repeater.

If you want to explore that possibility I would suggest renting or borrowing some modern business radios and see if you have coverage at each property without using a repeater. Then see if you can talk from the properties to your central office, of course I have no idea if that's the way you want to set up but the moral of the story is it costs very little to try it first. You can always go the citywide route later.

rapidcharger said:

In the gmrs, the radios have to be certified for gmrs, part 95. I don't believe any of those radios you mentioned are but I could be mistaken about that.

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actually the TK-880 is part 95 certified: FCC ID ALH24593110

Cellphones are fine for one-to-one communications where you have time to dial the number and don't need anyone else to know what is going on right away. I can't see how a security operation with multiple patrols operating simultaneously could be safe or effective without regular radios.

MTS2000des said:

actually the TK-880 is part 95 certified: FCC ID ALH24593110

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I thought that it might have been but I couldn't remember.

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DaveNF2G said:

Cellphones are fine for one-to-one communications where you have time to dial the number and don't need anyone else to know what is going on right away. I can't see how a security operation with multiple patrols operating simultaneously could be safe or effective without regular radios.

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In radio sales you have to show them how they can get a faster return on their investment with radios instead of cellphones. Money talks.

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Just use an app like Zello on your phones.

rapidcharger said:

In radio sales you have to show them how they can get a faster return on their investment with radios instead of cellphones. Money talks.

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That's why radio sales people cause so many problems, I guess. More focus on profit and financial considerations than on the communications needs of the customers.

DaveNF2G said:

That's why radio sales people cause so many problems, I guess. More focus on profit and financial considerations than on the communications needs of the customers.

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Radio sales people are just trying to make a living amid shrinking demand, increased competition and in many cases high quotas. But you can not stand there and tell me it's cheaper to get cell phones for all your employees than to get radios in the near term. Even a basic smart phone with contact runs a hundred bucks and business group rate for the lines are about 40$ a mo. Before you even add all the taxes and fees, you're already up to $480 for the phone and one year of service for one line. You can buy a good mid tier radio new for that and there's no monthly bills and no distractions when employees want to play on the phones. Management can hear and even record what is going on. In the bowels of many large buildings cell phones may not have that great of a signal either. Even if you had to get an in-house repeater, you will still come out ahead.

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cellphones also do not work in many places inside a given workplace, despite the telcom cartels of seamless coverage and perfect networks, there are many places I know of where, even despite costly DAS systems installed, coverage is still hit or miss.

Then there is another big point: the average consumer cellphone will not last in anything but an "office" environment. There are a few rugged models, but they are more costly than some mid tier business radios, and then there is the whole operating a touch screen is a distraction and can hinder productivity. Ever tried tapping a screen with a gloved hand and trying to "swipe left" or "tap here to talk"? Or tried hearing the pathetic little speakers over the drone of a power tool?

Land mobile radios are purpose built for WORK. As with any tool, one needs the right tool for the job.