KMG-365 and "Adam-12" VHF in use?

johnnyelectron · Jul 28, 2015

Newbie: I'm going to be making a cross-country visit to LA county for the first time, and have no clue what is in use in LA County, but for starters, do they still have the original VHF frequency and call-sign as used on 'Adam-12' in use for LAPD in some function, likewise, the 'LA County Squad 51' KMG-365- is it used as a dispatch relay channel or has it been decommissioned?

My basic understanding was that most of LA County is analog UHF in the clear and simplex, or has Motorola convinced them to spend millions for a digital system like they did in Michigan?

Thanks! 73

krokus · Jul 28, 2015

LaCo fire still holds the license for KMG 365. (Last I knew.)

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nd5y · Jul 28, 2015

KMG365 (LOS ANGELES, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details
KMA367 (LOS ANGELES, CITY OF) FCC Callsign Details

KB7MIB · Jul 28, 2015

On the "Emergency" TV show, station 51 was fictional, and scenes were shot at the real station 127, which still exists today. (The refinery scenes were shot at the real refinery, across the street from the station.)

Today, station 51 actually exists, at Universal Studios.

If you do a search on "Emergency!", or LA County Fire Squad 51, or something similar, there's many websites dedicated to it. Some people have done tours of 127 where the show was shot, and it still looks much the same. You can find photos and even video of the station.
John
Peoria, AZ

garys · Jul 28, 2015

LAPD is P25 UHF-T mostly repeated, but some simplex. They might have some encrypted channels, but dispatch is not. Up until not too many years ago the VHF channels were used for MDTs, but that's no longer the case.
LA County Sheriff uses a UHF-T system, but it is not repeated. At least wasn't the last time I looked t the database. They use a two channel simplex system where the base talks out on one frequency and the mobiles talk in on another. It's the same set up they used when they were on VHF-Low and I have no idea why they do it that way.
LA City FD is on a 20 channel 800 conventional system. No trunking, all analog.
LA County Fire is on UHF-T, none of the VHF is still used.

The database here has a lot of good information, plus you can go to Harry Marnell's page for some great LAPD communications history and information.

ron36 · Jul 28, 2015

Went on Broad castify !! Listen in on LA Blue one I think. I actually heard some Emergency of fire company's. Involving hoisting rescue and helio. I actually heard Engine 51 talk to LA. !! Real Station 51. Is in Universal city! Their slang and radio is still on as if the show was on!!! CHP uses different slang from chips!! I was monitoring LA Sunday night for gigles,online! TV show 127 Carson station portrays Station 51 on the show if you watch the show Engine 127 is in a lot of scenes !! A lot was shot during real life Emergencies !! As for the cast really went on ride alongs in 70s to get the idea of real life! Note Chicago Fire show on NBC today has a fake Station! Were 127 LA was really used as the stations for Emergency!Throws in my 2 cents ! Wikipedia has a big write up on Emergency cast and crew!

KMA367 · Jul 29, 2015

johnnyelectron said:
...for starters, do they still have the original VHF frequency and call-sign as used on 'Adam-12' in use for LAPD in some function

Yup, LAPD does still have a handful of the VHF frequencies that were in use in the Adam-12 days, but they're all now used for non-dispatch purposes, such as a few "too-big-to-talk-about" detectives and other specialized uses. Dispatching and most other comms are in the UHF-T band and almost entirely digital.

The link provided by Tom, nd5y in Message #3 is correct for LAPD's venerable (but seldom heard anymore) "KMA367," although the RR database file needs to be updated to delete the 20K0F3E (wideband voice) for all except for 39.06. The FCC ULS link at the bottom of that table is current and accurate. Note that the license renewal was effective on May 1, 2015. Coincidentally enough, that was 84 years to the day after LAPD began using radio in 1931, on 1712 kilocycles with callsign KGPL. The 154 & 155 mHz VHF frequencies started getting assigned to the department in 1947, and KMA367 was their first "3x3" callsign, replacing KGPL on May 20, 1949, so it's more than 65 years old...
.

Aero125 · Jul 29, 2015

garys said:
LA County Fire is on UHF-T, none of the VHF is still used.

LACoFD Does use the UHF 'Blue' channels for primary voice dispatch and command channels. The VHF channels are in regular use as simplex fireground channels and backup command repeater pairs. LACoFD also has a museum with both the original restored Engine and Squad 51 on display along with other memorabilia, worth a visit for sure!

Mikerh91 · Aug 1, 2015

garys said:
LA County Sheriff uses a UHF-T system, but it is not repeated. At least wasn't the last time I looked t the database. They use a two channel simplex system where the base talks out on one frequency and the mobiles talk in on another. It's the same set up they used when they were on VHF-Low and I have no idea why they do it that way.
.

LA County Sheriff's system is repeated. The dispatcher just adds a busy tone to the down link (RX frequency) most of the time. They turn that feature on and off and then you can hear the field units.

SCPD · Aug 2, 2015

Were the LASO low band dispatch channels a frequency pair? If so they used a repeater also The beeps could be heard all over the country,depending on conditions. I used to leave a LASO frequency on at night when I lived in New Mexico and when I heard the beeps I would program the scanner to LAFD and CHP frequencies as I thought them to be more interesting.

garys · Aug 2, 2015

This is not necessarily so. A two channel simplex system doesn't have to repeat traffic. Nor would a repeater be needed to produce beeps on the base channel when there is traffic on the mobile side.

Exsmokey said:
Were the LASO low band dispatch channels a frequency pair? If so they used a repeater also The beeps could be heard all over the country,depending on conditions. I used to leave a LASO frequency on at night when I lived in New Mexico and when I heard the beeps I would program the scanner to LAFD and CHP frequencies as I thought them to be more interesting.

garys · Aug 2, 2015

Can you give a guess about what percent fo the time the field traffic is actually repeated? If it's more often than not, it would be good to add that information to the database, which gives the impression that the traffic isn't routinely repeated.

Mikerh91 said:
LA County Sheriff's system is repeated. The dispatcher just adds a busy tone to the down link (RX frequency) most of the time. They turn that feature on and off and then you can hear the field units.

prcguy · Aug 2, 2015

I've never heard LA County Sheriff without the tone and I don't believe the dispatcher can turn it on or off, that would probably be done for maintenance use at the Eastern Ave radio center. The tone is so annoying I don't bother monitoring LASO any more.
prcguy

Mikerh91 said:
LA County Sheriff's system is repeated. The dispatcher just adds a busy tone to the down link (RX frequency) most of the time. They turn that feature on and off and then you can hear the field units.

Aero125 · Aug 2, 2015

prcguy said:
I've never heard LA County Sheriff without the tone and I don't believe the dispatcher can turn it on or off, that would probably be done for maintenance use at the Eastern Ave radio center. The tone is so annoying I don't bother monitoring LASO any more.
prcguy

LASD Dispatch channels are usually in the tone/input busy mode, but deputies can request the "patch" and the dispatcher changes the channel into regular repeater mode. This is done quite often on all dispatch channels and done usually when multiple units are responding to a hot call, a crime broadcast, or a pursuit. Of course the LTAC's, ATAC's and CTAC are all run as full time regular repeaters.

scottyhetzel · Aug 2, 2015

The dispatcher can add the "patch" at anytime when it hits the fan or when the deputy is giving BOLO for a wanted person. Containments unusually have the patch until they go to L -tac.. No beeps during this time.
Patch= base and mobile shared

SCPD · Aug 2, 2015

Not to cross thread or anything if it seems but so LASO still uses a old setup per say with the duplexing, what do they do with portable uses and how is that handled? I thought LASO was going to a trunked system? Does the current and former LASO portables use a vrs since it is basically one sided like a few others use to do relaying the in and out onto the vrs portable to to the deputy it seemed like a back to back repeated?

KMA367 · Aug 2, 2015

Exsmokey said:
Were the LASO low band dispatch channels a frequency pair? If so they used a repeater also The beeps could be heard all over the country,depending on conditions. I used to leave a LASO frequency on at night when I lived in New Mexico and when I heard the beeps I would program the scanner to LAFD and CHP frequencies as I thought them to be more interesting.

Last-minute question, before my expanding "answer," below. I understand what repeaters DO, but not really the technical definition of one. In the mid-70s, which I discuss below, could it have been that the uplink and downlink were patched as needed at the console by the RTO or PSD (dispatcher) rather than going through a typical mountaintop repeater? Same result - the uplink is rebroadcast on the downlink - but by a different mechanism. A distinction without a meaningful difference for listeners, I suppose. Now:

I seldom listened to LASD, except when I lived in their Lakewood Station area in 1975-77, and by then they definitely used paired channels with the busy-beeps, and with the "patch" being available just as now. That was the the 39 mHz days, of course, and they had several car-to-car channels (C, H, E, W, M... whatever the freqs were) but I don't recall those being paired or repeated.

A 1964 list shows their freqs as

F1 - 39.62 B&M Car-to-car

F2 - 39.58B/39.74M (Firestone #1, Lennox #3, Newhall #6, Hollywood #9, Malibu #10, Montrose #12, Lakewood #13, Lancaster #11) KMD880 & KMA629

F3 - 39.54B/39.70M (East Los Angeles #2, Norwalk #4, Temple City #5, Altadena #7, San Dimas #8) KMA628

[unk freq] - Portable emergency station KMD830 "Station E"

Earlier, a sparsely-detailed 1956 list has

179 mobiles with callsign KA4306, on frequencies 37.26, 39.58, 39.66, 39.74, 39.98, and [CHP's] 42.18, 42.34

Multiple base stations on 39.58 with the ubiquitous KMA628 plus about 8 other callsigns

One base on 453.15, along with 25 mobiles on 458.15, callsign KMG240

And since I've gone that far back anyway, a 1946 APCO nationwide police frequency book shows Los Angeles County (SO) with

KQBV base & mobiles on 31,900 kc [31.90 mHz in today's parlance]

"Monitoring 1682 [CHP], 1714, 1730, 2490, and 33,500 kc" [which were common police voice frequencies in the So Cal area]

What was the question again??

Mikerh91 · Aug 2, 2015

ptolemy9200 said:
Not to cross thread or anything if it seems but so LASO still uses a old setup per say with the duplexing, what do they do with portable uses and how is that handled? I thought LASO was going to a trunked system? Does the current and former LASO portables use a vrs since it is basically one sided like a few others use to do relaying the in and out onto the vrs portable to to the deputy it seemed like a back to back repeated?

LASO does NOT use VRS. Their portable and mobile radios go to the mountain top or low level receiver sites. Like someone mentioned earlier, all of their radio traffic is repeated, how ever most of the time the end user only hears a beep. The dispatcher can turn that beep on or off. When the beep is off all users will hear the field units radio messages. Users will NOT hear the beep on the L-tac or A-tac channels.

As for a trunked system, LASO is looking at LA-RICS which is another thread.

SCPD · Aug 3, 2015

garys said:
This is not necessarily so. A two channel simplex system doesn't have to repeat traffic. Nor would a repeater be needed to produce beeps on the base channel when there is traffic on the mobile side.

Yes, you are correct. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I wrote my post.

Someone asked what percentage of the time the busy beeps are used. Based on my experience, given that I moved away from southern California 42 years ago, is that the patch enabling field units to listen to other mobiles, is used very little. It is the exception and not the rule. When I've listened to them the enable the patch when multiple units are responding to a hot call. This allows units to speak directly to each other instead of switching to an L Tac and being able to hear any updates the dispatcher receives all on one channel. Once responding units arrive on scene and the incident stabilizes, the patch is dropped. It is similar to agencies declaring a "Code 33" on a frequency,which shuts the channel down to all traffic not involved in the emergency incident.

KB6KGX · Aug 3, 2015

krokus said:
LaCo fire still holds the license for KMG 365. (Last I knew.)

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From Wikipedia:

"KMG365", which is said by the crewmember acknowledging a call for a unit at Station 51, is a real FCC call sign used by LACoFD assigned to Fire Station 98 in Bellflower, and it appears on the Station Patch for Station 127, which today still houses Engine 127 and Truck 127 (now known as Light Force 127).

KMG-365 and "Adam-12" VHF in use?

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