XTL5000?

Hi folks,

Livingston Co, NY is moving to a new radio system within the next year or so. We were originally told our existing VHF radios (CDM1250s/CP185s) would work on the new system, but now I'm being told the system will be a P25 trunked system, and I know that can't possibly be true if that is the case.

I'm told the county is looking at providing APX7000 portables and APX4500 mobiles, but it is very likely that they will not be able to do a one for one replacement for us. And it is even more likely that my mobile radio is one that will not be replaced as part of the grant (almost guaranteed in fact, as I purchased it personally).

My question is: as I cannot afford/justify a personal purchase of one of the APX models, would an XTL5000 be likely to work on a new Motorola P25 trunked system? I don't see why not. As I'll be eBaying, what should I look out for? What options should I look for?

I'm specifically looking at this unit:
Motorola XTL5000 XTL VHF 136 174 MHz 800 CH 110 Watts Digital Radio Encryption | eBay

Additionally: what CPS and programming cable would I need? These I'd buy direct from Motorola.

Please let me know.

Thanks!

Ben

If the system is a Phase II P25, the XTL5000 will not work unless the system is provisioned for phase I talkgroups.

You should wait and get the specifics from your system admin before throwing down the money.

mikegilbert said:

If the system is a Phase II P25, the XTL5000 will not work unless the system is provisioned for phase I talkgroups.

You should wait and get the specifics from your system admin before throwing down the money.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

I take it if that is the case (phase 2) one of the APX line would be required?

That is correct, only the APX line will do Phase II.

If you end up going to a apx I suggest researching before getting one and from a legit reputable dealer. The ebay ones I would not reccomend. If you have to go apx I suggest the new 8000 all band er that ships the 15th. If your going to spend dear might as well get the latest.

ptolemy9200 said:

If you end up going to a apx I suggest researching before getting one and from a legit reputable dealer. The ebay ones I would not reccomend. If you have to go apx I suggest the new 8000 all band er that ships the 15th. If your going to spend dear might as well get the latest.

Click to expand...

The quote I got for a single band APX4500 from a dealer was nearly $4000, and that was state bid pricing (which for an individual purchase I probably can't get that pricing). I imagine the APX8000 is going to be significantly more.

I found an APX6500 w/ VHF and 700/800 for about the same price on eBay.

Also: it appears the APX8000 is a portable? I'm in need of a mobile.


But I do appreciate the comments!

before buying any personal radios, you should first consult with the ones who support/administrate the system you plan to have it provisioned on.

They usually have an approved/supported subscriber radios list. While many here on RR have lots of good (and sometimes very poor) advice, when you are dealing with public safety radios for public safety use, the first stop should be those in your agency who are responsible for the radio system(s) you plan to have it used on.

Programming trunking subscriber radios usually is not done by end users, again, those who are implementing/administrating the new system usually have a procedure in place. It requires not only the current CPS and cables, but a system key and proper templates/codeplugs, and provisioned user IDs. It has to be done RIGHT or one can potentially cause problems for others on the network. Not to mention, programming trunking radios without authorization can be a career ender.

In short, consult with those who are in charge of the new system. I always advise against buying any eBay/used radios for life safety users, unless you KNOW the seller and have the radio fully vetted by your radio shop BEFORE programming it on the system.

> before buying any personal radios, you should first consult with the ones who support/administrate the system you plan to have it provisioned on.

Agreed, this seems like sound advice. Unfortunately getting answers to our questions from the county has not been easy, and in many cases the answers we are getting are not entirely clear.

> the first stop should be those in your agency who are responsible for the radio system(s) you plan to have it used on.

Well, in this case that would be me. I'm responsible for communications for my agency, but the system is owned by the county.

With the current system (analog conventional low band) we have done all the programming in house. I'd like to continue that, but agree we need further communication with the county to see if that'll be possible.

> In short, consult with those who are in charge of the new system.

I've been working with the county fire coordinator, but he isn't a radio guy. I'd really like to talk to whoever the system administrator is going to be -- likely someone with the Sheriff's office who run our 911 center, but I don't have that answer yet.

> I always advise against buying any eBay/used radios for life safety users, unless you KNOW the seller and have the radio fully vetted by your radio shop BEFORE programming it on the system.

I appreciate the advice. We wouldn't be eBaying mission critical radios. Hopefully everything that is mission critical will be provided by the county through the grant for the system. What I'm talking about here are mobile radios for Lieutenants and Captains. Their (our) portables are considered mission critical. The mobiles are not.

N0BDW said:

>
Agreed, this seems like sound advice. Unfortunately getting answers to our questions from the county has not been easy, and in many cases the answers we are getting are not entirely clear.

Click to expand...

Then push it up your chain of command. When a new system is implemented, especially in a P25 world, provisioning of subscribers is usually a much more controlled, coordinated process. Rogue programming can screw up a project. If you think you have difficulties now...

N0BDW said:

>
I'm responsible for communications for my agency, but the system is owned by the county.

Click to expand...

and this is where you have are going to have to realize that you are now a subscriber on someone else' network. Trunking systems are like being a subscriber on any other network: you pay a fee, the provider does the rest of the work on their end.

You should at least have a contact with the administrator or project manager overseeing the rollout. There should be meetings going on weekly/bi-weekly with the vendor and all involved. NOW IS THE TIME to start reaching out and voicing your concerns up the food chain, not after fleet mapping is over and provisioning has begun.

N0BDW said:

>
With the current system (analog conventional low band) we have done all the programming in house. I'd like to continue that, but agree we need further communication with the county to see if that'll be possible.

Click to expand...

Speaking from the standpoint of someone who is in the middle of this where I work, you are going to HAVE to be in touch with those who run the system if you want to program any subscriber units on their network.

You will have to get a system key, authorization, and training from them on how to program subscriber radios. You will have to know the IDs or pool of IDs, access to talkgroup templates/codeplugs authorized for your group, and you will also want to consult with them as to what make/model of subscriber radios are permitted.

Provisioning will be done by the system manager or project manager. Did I mention that NOW IS THE TIME to make it a priority to get in touch with them?

Trunking radio is a totally different world than conventional as far as programming subscriber radios.

Do it wrong and you will be in a world of headache.

N0BDW said:

> We wouldn't be eBaying mission critical radios. Hopefully everything that is mission critical will be provided by the county through the grant for the system.

Click to expand...

Again...beating the horse here, you need to be talking to the county or project manager NOW to find out what specifically they will provide, what tier of subscriber units, and what they will allow to be provisioned if "customer owned and maintained".

N0BDW said:

> bWhat I'm talking about here are mobile radios for Lieutenants and Captains. Their (our) portables are considered mission critical. The mobiles are not.

Click to expand...

ANY subscriber radio used by public safety for public safety response is mission critical.

MTS2000des said:

Then push it up your chain of command. When a new system is implemented, especially in a P25 world, provisioning of subscribers is usually a much more controlled, coordinated process. Rogue programming can screw up a project. If you think you have difficulties now...



and this is where you have are going to have to realize that you are now a subscriber on someone else' network. Trunking systems are like being a subscriber on any other network: you pay a fee, the provider does the rest of the work on their end.

You should at least have a contact with the administrator or project manager overseeing the rollout. There should be meetings going on weekly/bi-weekly with the vendor and all involved. NOW IS THE TIME to start reaching out and voicing your concerns up the food chain, not after fleet mapping is over and provisioning has begun.



Speaking from the standpoint of someone who is in the middle of this where I work, you are going to HAVE to be in touch with those who run the system if you want to program any subscriber units on their network.

You will have to get a system key, authorization, and training from them on how to program subscriber radios. You will have to know the IDs or pool of IDs, access to talkgroup templates/codeplugs authorized for your group, and you will also want to consult with them as to what make/model of subscriber radios are permitted.

Provisioning will be done by the system manager or project manager. Did I mention that NOW IS THE TIME to make it a priority to get in touch with them?

Trunking radio is a totally different world than conventional as far as programming subscriber radios.

Do it wrong and you will be in a world of headache.



Again...beating the horse here, you need to be talking to the county or project manager NOW to find out what specifically they will provide, what tier of subscriber units, and what they will allow to be provisioned if "customer owned and maintained".



ANY subscriber radio used by public safety for public safety response is mission critical.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice.