How would I T-Hunt an RC transmitter.

jmerrick · Aug 3, 2015

I posted my first message in the "new users" thread, and I'm just waiting for it to be approved.
Since this is a "general discussion" thread, I think it would be ok to ask the members here without breaking a rule.
Is it possible to T Hunt a radio controlled quad copter owner, by tracking his/her transmitter? I don't want to hurt the law breaking "drone", just report the law breaking drone operator.
In my area it is VERY dry, and the forest fire's are worse then most other years. Our fire fighter's just had to suspend their effort's due to dangerous UAV vehicle's in the air and to close to the water bomber's (the same thing happened in California). Canadian law enforcement and forestry are currently working together to try and find way's to prevent this. I'd like to help them!
How do I locate them using their RF signal's please?

ScannerSK · Aug 3, 2015

A better place for your post may be under the Radio Direction Finding Forum.

Possibly a moderator will move this thread over to that forum.

Shawn

teufler · Aug 3, 2015

I thinkj it would be possible as RC controllers fly pennants to advertise what frequency they are on. These a are pretty much dedicated frequencies. Drones have only so much range so the transmitter would have to be in a small area and would be easy to track.MHz RC Airplane Frequencies - USA and Canada
Basics of Radio Frequencies for FPV Quadcopter Drones - Drone Flyers
seems drones operate on 2.4 ghz and 5,8 ghz so some special receiver would have to be employed. Now some kind of directional antenna. 2.4 GHz to 5.8 GHz Ultra-Wideband 8 dBi Log Periodic Antenna - HG2458-08LP-NF about $75.00 for the antenna. Certain hand held scanner receive up in the 1.2 to 1.5 ghz range, maybe higher but you should be able to work on a harmonic

jmerrick · Aug 4, 2015

ScannerSK said:
A better place for your post may be under the Radio Direction Finding Forum.

Possibly a moderator will move this thread over to that forum.

Shawn

Thanks Shawn, if that's where this thread should be, I hope they do.

ScannerSK · Aug 4, 2015

Some drones are programmed to fly back home when they lose the signal from the controller. If something were to jam the signal it would fly directly home which would make finding the culprit much easier.

I can see a day not too distant in the future when police drones are chasing down offending drones!

Shawn

jmerrick · Aug 4, 2015

teufler said:
I thinkj it would be possible as RC controllers fly pennants to advertise what frequency they are on. These a are pretty much dedicated frequencies. Drones have only so much range so the transmitter would have to be in a small area and would be easy to track.MHz RC Airplane Frequencies - USA and Canada
Basics of Radio Frequencies for FPV Quadcopter Drones - Drone Flyers
seems drones operate on 2.4 ghz and 5,8 ghz so some special receiver would have to be employed. Now some kind of directional antenna. 2.4 GHz to 5.8 GHz Ultra-Wideband 8 dBi Log Periodic Antenna - HG2458-08LP-NF about $75.00 for the antenna. Certain hand held scanner receive up in the 1.2 to 1.5 ghz range, maybe higher but you should be able to work on a harmonic

Hi teufler. What is pennants please? The 5.8 ghz is for the FPV camera feed, and the 2.4 ghz is for the quad copter. Your absolutely right about the range of the intrusive drone's, it is limited. I'm hoping I could use a 3 to 4 mile radius with a ground based station, and a little more if I can equip my multi rotor with a receiver set up under 350 grams. That's the payload capacity of my multi rotor, although I am looking to purchase a bird that is dedicated to drone suppression alone.
Do you happen to have links for the equipment that I would need to achieve my goal?

N8IAA · Aug 4, 2015

jmerrick said:
Hi teufler. What is pennants please? The 5.8 ghz is for the FPV camera feed, and the 2.4 ghz is for the quad copter. Your absolutely right about the range of the intrusive drone's, it is limited. I'm hoping I could use a 3 to 4 mile radius with a ground based station, and a little more if I can equip my multi rotor with a receiver set up under 350 grams. That's the payload capacity of my multi rotor, although I am looking to purchase a bird that is dedicated to drone suppression alone.
Do you happen to have links for the equipment that I would need to achieve my goal?

Your original post, and this one are a little ambitious. I'm sure that your wanting to help is due to the fact that people have lost their common sense by flying the drones where they shouldn't.

My suggestion, is that you ask the authorities if they need your help. In most countries, taking the law into your hands ends up bad.
I'm not a troll, but someone who has the benefit of wisdom

Larry

DickH · Aug 4, 2015

jmerrick said:
I posted my first message in the "new users" thread, and I'm just waiting for it to be approved.
Since this is a "general discussion" thread, I think it would be ok to ask the members here without breaking a rule.
Is it possible to T Hunt a radio controlled quad copter owner, by tracking his/her transmitter? I don't want to hurt the law breaking "drone", just report the law breaking drone operator.
In my area it is VERY dry, and the forest fire's are worse then most other years. Our fire fighter's just had to suspend their effort's due to dangerous UAV vehicle's in the air and to close to the water bomber's (the same thing happened in California). Canadian law enforcement and forestry are currently working together to try and find way's to prevent this. I'd like to help them!
How do I locate them using their RF signal's please?

If you have a shotgun, it would be a lot easier, and a much more permanent solution, to just shoot the thing down.

krokus · Aug 4, 2015

jmerrick said:
What is pennants please?

The older RC aircraft and boats were controlled on discrete channels. To avoid conflicts, and crashes, the facility would supply color coded flags for each channel, which the craft operator would attach to their controller antenna. Only the person with the flag in their possession could operate on that channel.

Sent via Tapatalk

buddrousa · Aug 4, 2015

Here is the answer to using a gun on a drone.
Kentucky Man Arrested After Shooting Down Camera Drone with Shotgun

madrabbitt · Aug 4, 2015

jmerrick said:
Hi teufler. What is pennants please? The 5.8 ghz is for the FPV camera feed, and the 2.4 ghz is for the quad copter. Your absolutely right about the range of the intrusive drone's, it is limited. I'm hoping I could use a 3 to 4 mile radius with a ground based station, and a little more if I can equip my multi rotor with a receiver set up under 350 grams. That's the payload capacity of my multi rotor, although I am looking to purchase a bird that is dedicated to drone suppression alone.
Do you happen to have links for the equipment that I would need to achieve my goal?

Wait, so basically, you're saying that in an attempt to locate drones that are illegally flying in a TFR area (Wildfire), you want to equip your own drone with tracking and potentially suppression equipment, and then fly it in the same area?

jmerrick · Aug 4, 2015

madrabbitt said:
Wait, so basically, you're saying that in an attempt to locate drones that are illegally flying in a TFR area (Wildfire), you want to equip your own drone with tracking and potentially suppression equipment, and then fly it in the same area?

No madrabbit, the UAV I will be using can be programed with a "no fly zone". If the police or forestry asked for your assistance, they would need to provide the area coordinates where there is a "no aircraft zone", you then program that in to your drone, and it WON"T go there, it will automatically land, before going into the fire zone. A person would have to work with authorities, it's not a Die Hard movie

.
I really want to make it clear that the goal IS NOT to shoot down a drone! UAV pilot's are not unlike ham radio enthusiast's, it's the person that is holding the handset or in my case, the transmitter, that is raising havoc or breaking law's. In both cases, find the owner, and you'll find the problem.
I told the WiFi people that I don't want to hack, spoof or jam the system's of any drone's either, that's illegal in BC Canada. But they told me something really cool. They said these "signsls" aren't like a lazer beams, making a thin line from A to B" they said, 'there's alway's a certain amount of signal spillage" (my word's, not their's...lol) and it's perfectly legal to use them.
Right away I thought about T- Hunters!! That's what they do right, find a signal and hone in on it. That's YOUR passion! So who better to ask, but the member's here, go to the source! And I'll tell you another good thing I've learned. When a pilot does "autonomous flight" with a drone, the computer does the flying, BUT, for emergencies, the drone has a manual override for the pilot to get back control. Which means the RC controller is still powered up, and sending signal's the minute that RC radio was fired up!
The information I am asking you, will be asked of you again ,I believe. The need for unwanted UAV suppression is growing, and growing faster than I would of ever thought.
My master plan is to make a prototype and donate it to the forestry service. My budget is $750 (over 1 year), and the model of quad copter I plan to modify is $400. But how would I....or better yet, how would you do it, find the problem??

ScannerSK · Aug 5, 2015

Drones are only able to fly for a limited duration. I would watch where it goes to land to find the owner. That would be the quickest, easiest and least expensive way however would likely require a high vantage point. I would at least include this in your arsenal of tools.

It may be possible with a computer to lock onto just the offending signal (either the signal from the drone operator or drone itself) and track that signal however there are so many signals operating in the 2.4 GHz band to make tracking one unlikely. I'm not sure if drones are assigned something down the line of a MAC address or not in the 2.4 GHz band? If so, then the same type of tools used to locate WiFi signals could potentially be used to locate drones.

madrabbitt · Aug 5, 2015

jmerrick said:
No madrabbit, the UAV I will be using can be programed with a "no fly zone". If the police or forestry asked for your assistance, they would need to provide the area coordinates where there is a "no aircraft zone", you then program that in to your drone, and it WON"T go there, it will automatically land, before going into the fire zone. A person would have to work with authorities, it's not a Die Hard movie .
I really want to make it clear that the goal IS NOT to shoot down a drone! UAV pilot's are not unlike ham radio enthusiast's, it's the person that is holding the handset or in my case, the transmitter, that is raising havoc or breaking law's. In both cases, find the owner, and you'll find the problem.
I told the WiFi people that I don't want to hack, spoof or jam the system's of any drone's either, that's illegal in BC Canada. But they told me something really cool. They said these "signsls" aren't like a lazer beams, making a thin line from A to B" they said, 'there's alway's a certain amount of signal spillage" (my word's, not their's...lol) and it's perfectly legal to use them.
Right away I thought about T- Hunters!! That's what they do right, find a signal and hone in on it. That's YOUR passion! So who better to ask, but the member's here, go to the source! And I'll tell you another good thing I've learned. When a pilot does "autonomous flight" with a drone, the computer does the flying, BUT, for emergencies, the drone has a manual override for the pilot to get back control. Which means the RC controller is still powered up, and sending signal's the minute that RC radio was fired up!
The information I am asking you, will be asked of you again ,I believe. The need for unwanted UAV suppression is growing, and growing faster than I would of ever thought.
My master plan is to make a prototype and donate it to the forestry service. My budget is $750 (over 1 year), and the model of quad copter I plan to modify is $400. But how would I....or better yet, how would you do it, find the problem??

I work summers in the wildfire industry. If i had a major fire, and there were drones up causing my aircraft to be grounded, and I knew that there was a pre-vetted resource with what is basically a hunter drone, rest assured they'd be at the top of my speed dial.

I wasnt aware that there was, at least on the computer controlled models, a way to program specific lockouts for existing TFR's, but it shouldnt surprise me.

Also, the drone 'debate' is something that i've been involved in, on both the wildland and structure fire side. Back home, about 2 years ago, there was a major downtown fire in the metro area i live in, and it just so happened that a company which uses drones for movie and commercial arial photography happened to be nearby, and had an IR equipped drone. They put it up with the IC's permission, and it was amazing how well the IR worked to detect hotspots and active fire in this older building, especially since it was an exterior attack only because of the dangers of this particular fire.

I really think drones, when operated officially, have a spot on the fireline. In fact, they can do some of the work we currently use aircraft for, but safer and cheaper. In wildland, why should we have a type 3 helo up for 2-3 hours at $900/hour to do GPS perimeter mapping and take IR shots of the interior, when a drone can do it significantly cheaper, and without putting a pilot and mission specialist up in the air at risk.

teufler · Aug 5, 2015

On ebay, AOR AR 8200 MK3 Wide Range Communications Receiver Tested Video | eBay
this radio along with this antenna, 2.4 GHz to 5.8 GHz Ultra-Wideband 8 dBi Log Periodic Antenna - HG2458-08LP-NF
you would be good to go. $320 for the radio, $80 for the antenna, some kind of mast to mount the antenna on, pvc pipe or a tv 10 ft pole

K5MPH · Aug 5, 2015

DickH said:
If you have a shotgun, it would be a lot easier, and a much more permanent solution, to just shoot the thing down.

Yes thats what i would do go grab a shot gun and shot it out of the sky..........

DJ11DLN · Aug 5, 2015

kb5zcs said:
Yes thats what i would do go grab a shot gun and shot it out of the sky..........

Agree 100%, in a case where the operation of a drone/drones is endangering aircrews, and in this case also endangering the people on the ground by causing aerial suppression to be suspended, and the drone operator cannot be quickly or easily located, it should be fine to take the drone out. Of course, that's just my $0.02...

Drone technology is fascinating and presents a ton of possibilities...but until the people using them start exercising some common sense, they present far more danger and liability than potential good. And when anybody with a wad of money can buy one, it's going to be a problem.

Props and luck to the OP for wanting to help find this idiot.

madrabbitt · Aug 5, 2015

DJ11DLN said:
Agree 100%, in a case where the operation of a drone/drones is endangering aircrews, and in this case also endangering the people on the ground by causing aerial suppression to be suspended, and the drone operator cannot be quickly or easily located, it should be fine to take the drone out. Of course, that's just my $0.02...

California introduced a bill allowing just this.

Senator Gaines Adds New Protections For Emergency Responders From Drone Threat | Ted Gaines

As well as new fines/penalties for the operators.

Bill Text - SB-167 Forest fires: interference: unmanned aircraft.

NHdave · Aug 5, 2015

kb5zcs said:
Yes thats what i would do go grab a shot gun and shot it out of the sky..........

DJ11DLN said:
Agree 100%, in a case where the operation of a drone/drones is endangering aircrews, and in this case also endangering the people on the ground by causing aerial suppression to be suspended, and the drone operator cannot be quickly or easily located, it should be fine to take the drone out. Of course, that's just my $0.02...

Drone technology is fascinating and presents a ton of possibilities...but until the people using them start exercising some common sense, they present far more danger and liability than potential good. And when anybody with a wad of money can buy one, it's going to be a problem.

Props and luck to the OP for wanting to help find this idiot.

So it's safer for you to fire a gun in the air than to have a drone flying around? You have no more common sense than the drone pilot in question.

krokus · Aug 5, 2015

NHdave said:
So it's safer for you to fire a gun in the air than to have a drone flying around? You have no more common sense than the drone pilot in question.

Not that I endorse the idea, but buckshot will not travel that far. It will be relatively safe as it falls.

The civil suit that follows, for the malicious destruction of property, and possible criminal charges, are a different matter.

Sent via Tapatalk

How would I T-Hunt an RC transmitter.

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