National Flight Following

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SCPD

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Many of you who listen to wildland firefighting frequencies may not be aware of a frequency known as "National Flight Following." The frequency is 168.6500. Pilots abbreviate the name to just "national." Example "Los Padres, Tanker 910 on national."

On a thread about frequencies used on the current wildland fires in northern California a member posted that he listens to "national" "religiously" and gets a lot of information about the air resources being used on fires and the changing priorities of those fires and aircraft being diverted from their original dispatch as a result. He mentioned that he hears North Ops communicating on remote bases in northern California.

Individual dispatch centers can use Flight Follow as well. I was unaware that North Ops can use a network of remote bases, but this was reported by the member on the other thread. I wonder how they are linked. If by the traditional UHF links the feds use in many locations it would be neat to find out what the frequencies are Listening to the closest downlink, if a person is in range of one, would allow hearing the entire net, which I presume may cover North Ops only. Another may exist for South Ops. On the other hand, the net may allow for operation of one remote base at a time. Traffic on every remote base at the same time would be a bit overwhelming.

However, the net might be linked via microwave using the state's system in a cooperative federal/state effort. I recently confirmed that a National Flight Follow remote base was installed on the Inyo National Forest. It had been one of those forests without one up until the last year or two. I can't figure out the UHF downlink frequency. The Air Guard remote base in the same location has a UHF link frequency I can hear from 30 miles away. This could indicate that Flight Following is linked to the state's microwave backbone.

In other areas of the country, many dispatch centers have local flight following remote bases in addition to "national." Local flight following frequencies are used by aircraft after they arrive in and start working in a dispatch center's area. These frequencies differ from the dispatch center's dispatch network frequencies.

I was not aware of how useful it is to listen to "national" and how extensively it is being used. It is a relatively new network and the frequency was reassigned from its previous use because it already had a nationwide authorization. Given this northern California report everyone should put this frequency in their scanners when listening to wildland fires.

I would love to hear reports from anyone who hears either North or South Ops from a remote base located far from where those centers are located. I'm curios if several of these bases are linked so that these centers can work them over a large area. Right now the fuel moistures in South Ops are wetter than those in the northern portion of the state. However we all know what can happen in southern California in the fall and there might be some activity then.
 

KJ6HCB

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Just heard "Robert 52"? (possibly) take off from Santa Maria enroute Fresno, 4 souls on board 30 something minute ETA. Active freq at least in this area!
 

SCPD

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norcalscan, this is directed to you.

I'm curious to know what locations you have been in when you have heard North Ops on National Flight Following. Is it possible that you are hearing all of the traffic on one remote base? I know that, at least on low band VHF, that North Ops can link to St. John Mountain on the Mendocino NF. It has a wide area of coverage and might create the impression that more than one remote base is being received (not at the same time). I know that both the Shasta-T NF's dispatch (collocated with the ECC for the Shasta-T unit of Cal Fire) and North Ops can link to St. John as that mountain was the hub for most of the North Zone dispatch center station to station radio network that used low band links. Other remote bases can probably be heard from locations in the Central Valley such as those for the Eldorado, Tahoe and Plumas National Forest. It might be difficult to distinguish Mt Hough on the Plumas from St John Mtn.

These are just some thoughts after hearing how informative listening to NFF is. I wish I could hear as much as you can, however, I do like being isolated from the rest of the state more.
 

SCPD

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Just heard "Robert 52"? (possibly) take off from Santa Maria enroute Fresno, 4 souls on board 30 something minute ETA. Active freq at least in this area!

Great, I wonder what mountain top it is being transmitted from? If you hear the station designator (call sign) of "South Ops" let me know.
 

SCPD

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Just heard "Robert 52"? (possibly) take off from Santa Maria enroute Fresno, 4 souls on board 30 something minute ETA. Active freq at least in this area!

I think the remote base you are hearing is provided there for use by the Cal Fire San Luis Obispo unit emergency communications center, which I believe is a joint facility with San Luis Obispo County fire. I'm thinking somewhere north of there in the Mt. Lowe area might be the location.

EDIT

I've never heard of an aircraft designated "Robert 52" in association with a natural resource agency or wildland firefighting. I've been retired for many years now so I'm not an expert anymore. Aviation uses the International Phonetic Alphabet which uses the pronunciation of "Romeo" for R. There is one aircraft with the same number used for wildland firefighting in California and that is "Jumper 52," a ship used by the Redding Smokejumpers and based there as well. It would be hard to confuse robert with jumper so I don't think we have an explanation here. By the way, for those who have trouble remembering the phonetics here is a way to remember two of them, Romeo for R and Juliet for J, a matched set you might say.
 
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KMA367

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Many of you who listen to wildland firefighting frequencies may not be aware of a frequency known as "National Flight Following." The frequency is 168.6500. Pilots abbreviate the name to just "national." Example "Los Padres, Tanker 910 on national."
Thanks for calling attention to 168.6500, sir. I've heard references to it but never tuned it in because (a) it didn't sound like it would be very interesting listening, and (b) I'm on the wrong side of the Humboldt County coastal ridge to hear much USFS radio traffic, being surrounded mostly by local and SRA land and then the 3000' wall of mountains.

I punched it into my Humboldt North feed scanner today though, and WOW. Almost wall-to-wall traffic between Fortuna off some excellent TX site (possibly Pierce or Horse?), and the aircraft signals which all sound direct. Not hearing anything that sounds repeated or linked. Hearing comms that seems to cover everything from the Oregon border to western SHU and all of HUU, and often farther. A lot more air-to-air traffic than I would have expected.

Also, got this new-to-me link to what appears to be a CAL-FIRE public info videocast, at http://tinyurl.com/CALFIRE-PIOs-report which is https://www.periscope.tv/w/aJJuczI4NzIwOTZ8NTQ1NjIzNzSJ0PUb_ynupT2uHebLwAcTe0nDVHtx3VDPZVD7K07pFw==. Never too old or too retired to learn "new" stuff.
 

QDP2012

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Many of you who listen to wildland firefighting frequencies may not be aware of a frequency known as "National Flight Following." The frequency is 168.6500. Pilots abbreviate the name to just "national." Example "Los Padres, Tanker 910 on national." ...

Exsmokey,

If you haven't already done so, it might be good to submit the frequency and a brief description to the RRDB, and/or add it to a Wiki page, like United States Forest Service (CA) or something similar.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
 

ko6jw_2

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I tried submitting this frequency to the USFS California database and was told to sit down and shut up. Its in the national database and would be a duplicate listing. Never mind the fact that it is much less accessible to the casual listener and is buried with many other tactical frequencies.

I think adding it to the Wiki page is a better idea.
 

kma371

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I tried submitting this frequency to the USFS California database and was told to sit down and shut up. Its in the national database and would be a duplicate listing. Never mind the fact that it is much less accessible to the casual listener and is buried with many other tactical frequencies.

I think adding it to the Wiki page is a better idea.

uh to be more specific, this is exactly what you were told:

"These are listed in National. Per DB policy, we do not list in more than one place."
 

ko6jw_2

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There are duplicate listings in the USFS database. The object should be to serve the needs of the user not enforce some asinine rules.
 

kma371

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well when you get your own website, you can make the rules. don't be mad at us for doing our job.

I'd be more than happy to review any duplicate listings you find. can you direct me to them?
 

KMA367

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well when you get your own website, you can make the rules. don't be mad at us for doing our job.

I'd be more than happy to review any duplicate listings you find. can you direct me to them?
I assume your request for any duplicate listings of 168.6500 is a serious request to get the DBs consistent. I've found 18 listings for that frequency in 16 different states' pages, with a couple being oddly named. I'll be glad to send them either here or in a PM if you wish.
 

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QDP2012

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KMA367

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Changed "Following" freqs for Humboldt Complexes

Today the Fortuna ICC announced that their flight following has changed to "168.125 Receive, 170.475 Transmit, Tone 4 or Tone 12." That happens to be the SRF Admin net.

So far today (as of 13:30) there's been little aircraft traffic due to a combination of fog, clouds and smoke, with light winds.
 
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